Dungeon design is just so boring and formulaic [Spoilers]

[Kuroka]

I would love more dynamic design for dungeon content, but the most vocal part of the community has nothing but contempt for them and would throw an unbelievable tantrum should we get anything other than what we have now. There also has to be something worth getting out of these dungeons, and the reason older ones like the thousand maws and Qarn dont get any mileage out of their extra chests and areas is because the things you get from them are useless now. If extra chests dropped something useful, like Tomes, then people would want to seek them out.

While i feel the same, no, youre wrong. Just look at palace, ppl only care for fast runs, never opening chests... it was part the reason i never got another weapon there as f that...

Also how they never let us use new skills in those just kills the fun to me...

[SeverianLyonesse]

While i feel the same, no, youre wrong. Just look at palace, ppl only care for fast runs, never opening chests... it was part the reason i never got another weapon there as f that...

Also how they never let us use new skills in those just kills the fun to me...

The concept of needing to level/grind alternate jobs in FFXIV pretty much ruins the fun factor of any side content with weighty rewards in the game. It ruined raids and roulettes (good luck getting any glams from Mhach/Dalmasca). It ruined PotD/HoH (aetherpool arms what?). It ruined Bozja (Field Notes are hard enough to spawn without cluster farms and fate trains).

I am not a fan of how the community chooses to play this game. Fun vampires, just sucking the life out of every piece of content just so they can level their next job/relic as quickly as possible.

And that attitude is also what has resulted in extremely boring dungeon design. Nobody plays dungeons to enjoy and explore. Though, to be fair, the dungeons didn't give us much to discover through exploration before anyway. But now it's just wall-to-wall pull, boss, wall-to-wall pull, boss, wall-to-wall pull, boss. I don't even know what the mob enemies are in each dungeon...they barely have any mechanics or identity and serve as only the most superficial of obstacles.

[Shurrikhan]

we need mythic plus dungeons

I mean, first we'd need dungeons worth turning into Mythic Plus. Trash in this game isn't just a byword for "mobs between bosses". They're... truly absent of any interesting mechanics.

They've tried exploratory dungeons before. The majority of the players hate them, and the ones who do engage the only successful ones... speedrun them (PotD, HoH).

Wait, wait, wait. You're calling PotD and HoH exploratory... dungeons? They're randomly-generated grids with textures determined by floor number. You might as well call Aquapolis or Exciteatron 6000 a dungeon.

Should have a dungeon design contest.

We could do an informal one? Some ideas have already cropped up here and there. Many threads are quickly lost to the swell of pages, but I think I started up one to a similar-ish effect not too long ago.

Ahh, there it is: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Dungeon-Design

[True-to-Caesar]

This, so much.

Yea no, keep mythic plus in WoW.

WoW also has very corridor-like dungeons, I have no idea what you’re talking about OP.
Even Vanilla WoW dungeons were hardly some big places to explore. It was more about making each room huge as hell to make you waste time walking from A to B.

Not a single dungeon in MMORPGs have the exploration feel because it’s not the purpose here. Purpose is to beat down bosses and get loot, that’s why you don’t have many trash mobs in this game. If you want exploration, just roll Elder Scrolls and even their dungeons are corridors at the end of the day.

Optional bosses ? Like the one from Shadowlands everybody skips and if someone wants to do it they get kicked/flamed ? Why add random trash mobs in a corner if everybody will skip them?

Let’s not make this game a WoW 2.0.

[Shurrikhan]

Yea no, keep mythic plus in WoW.

WoW also has very corridor-like dungeons, I have no idea what you’re talking about OP.

That is... so disingenuous. WoW has dungeons with corridors, yes. But unlike in XIV (with all of three exceptions), not every dungeon is an unvaried corridor, wall, corridor, wall, and boss room. Their scale, size, openness, boss counts, length, approaches, pathing, etc., can all be highly variable, with escort segments, survival timers, clue-seeking, etc., all potentially cropping up in them.

Purpose is to beat down bosses and get loot, that’s why you don’t have many trash mobs in this game.

The purpose of a dungeon is the same as for any other content type: to be entertaining in a way that offers something distinct from other content forms. Nothing in that necessitates rigid adherence to a particular pace or structure; a given piece of content need only have reward efficiency enough to be contextually competitive against alternate sources to the degree the game wishes to direct player behaviors, insofar as can be done without sacrificing its primary purpose--entertainment.

Let’s not make this game a WoW 2.0.

Having trash actually be of some interest will not turn XIV into "WoW 2.0" any more than having a more functional, streamlined, and intuitive glamour system would. Having dungeons that feel more distinct from one another will not turn the game into "WoW 2.0" any more than having than having less convoluted menus would. A single line of improvement already seen in some other MMO does not suddenly turn any game that innovates towards a similar increase in quality into a copy of that other MMO.

They also whined about ppl wanting to take side paths to get the additional chests...

The bonus chests gave crafting components barely worthwhile even to those few who could actually use them. That's less a matter of "sidepaths bad!" as "this is literal junk."

[Kuroka]

The concept of needing to level/grind alternate jobs in FFXIV pretty much ruins the fun factor of any side content with weighty rewards in the game. It ruined raids and roulettes (good luck getting any glams from Mhach/Dalmasca). It ruined PotD/HoH (aetherpool arms what?). It ruined Bozja (Field Notes are hard enough to spawn without cluster farms and fate trains).

I am not a fan of how the community chooses to play this game. Fun vampires, just sucking the life out of every piece of content just so they can level their next job/relic as quickly as possible.

And that attitude is also what has resulted in extremely boring dungeon design. Nobody plays dungeons to enjoy and explore. Though, to be fair, the dungeons didn't give us much to discover through exploration before anyway. But now it's just wall-to-wall pull, boss, wall-to-wall pull, boss, wall-to-wall pull, boss. I don't even know what the mob enemies are in each dungeon...they barely have any mechanics or identity and serve as only the most superficial of obstacles.

I can only sign that... while exp to level is nice, ppl only "leeching" the fastest most lazy exp jut sucks all the fun out of it.... I wanna do stuff with ppl doing their job decently and not netflix afk level job #12...

Fun Vamires is a very fitting term... the almighty race in everything sucks and the gameplay even enforces it. I surely wont pull only 2 mobs and waste any CDs on them so i cant do s### on the next pack...


And its alos the devs that are always suprised by how systems are abused or how we end up doing stuff... it sucks...

They didnt like the fate train in eureka so pagos hit really hard there... isntead of adding the log or daily quests, raise mob chain exp etc, no, just kill the train and make travel a hell.. BUT i will admit i loved the constant dread, the fear of dying... it had a flair and Bozja with its super open map kinda lacked that... DR isnt the same as theres always a ton of ppl around, making it hard to avoid stuff...

And what i hate the most, after some time they just nerv stuff to the ground... the mogtome is my biggest insult like, anybody could grind out beast tribe mounts... they literally got reskins for ALL of em but yet they go the lazy way...

[Warpstone]

we need mythic plus dungeons

We don't need that toxic crap in this game. Go play WoW if that's what you want to run.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Well they could have gone to a formula of MSQ being nothing but solo duties you clear with NPCs and made all the multiplayer duties optional side content so all those "but you cant require skill for story stuff" ppl could have their story line progress while the rest of us have a more engaging experience with content done with other players. But then it would just increase the frequency of threads by people that want the optional content goodies that require more thought than push 1-4 buttons in sequence but refuse to develop the player skill needed to do the content.

[TheMightyMollusk]

WoW also has very corridor-like dungeons, I have no idea what you’re talking about OP.
Even Vanilla WoW dungeons were hardly some big places to explore. It was more about making each room huge as hell to make you waste time walking from A to B.

Some Vanilla WoW dungeons were huge. Stratholme and Scholomance were sprawling, the Sunken Temple of Atal'Hakkar was absurd, and Blackrock Depths was easily an afternoon for a full clear. They moved away from that in The Burning Crusade, and come Cataclysm, even the old dungeons got trimmed down. Stratholme was cut in half (or rather, a gate in the middle of it was closed, the entire map is technically still there) and made into two dungeons, Scholomance had a chunk cut off, the Sunken Temple lost more than two thirds of its area. Blackrock wasn't changed, but the dungeon finder treats it as multiple dungeons and a teleport was added near the entrance to take you to the right section.

[Zfz]

Just for those who thought this is the devs to blame: no it's 100% the players to blame.

Players wanted quick and easy dungeons. Every dungeon that tried to spice things up a little before had been met with cries of it being too difficult, take too much time, and we see people rather take the penalty and drop out at the start of the dungeon if they get it in the roulette.

Those people ruined it for all of us, and dungeons in FFXIV are simply never going to have any variation ever again.

It's just another one of those "the reason why we can't have nice things" situation, and the blame is 100% on the players, not on the devs.