Parsing unfair but okay?

[HyoMinPark]

Just reading your responses thus far, I hope I never have the displeasure of being partied with you. What a buzzkill.

I’m not going to apologize for having my opinions, and I stand behind them. When you join a PF, you adhere to whatever rules that PF leader sets. Same for statics. And it can even extend in part to DF when it comes to doing what the majority wants as opposed to having 1 player trying to force a playstyle on 3 others that do not want that playstyle. There’s nothing wrong about that; nothing about it is a “buzzkill”. If we want to talk about personal buzzkills, for me it would be forced into carrying someone who very clearly does not align with the goals of the rest of the group.

As for your displeasure at partying with me: at the risk of seeming slightly rude in my bluntness, I don’t care. I’m not here to seek validation for my opinions or actions. I don’t put stock in internet points. I’m just here to discuss and contest blatant misconceptions.

A lot of people quoted me and instead of responding to each one, it wasn't the specific post I quoted that I'm commenting on. I'm commenting on the totality of responses I've read. If you want to kick people out of your PF, that is fine. You are within your rights as it isn't against ToS. Does it make you a beacon of the community? Absolutely not.

I also find the people that want to be carried a buzzkill as well, but unfortunately, that is the mentality in a lot of society. "C41", I'll sneak in and make it C42. Unsynced mount farm, eh, what is a few deaths? I've seen so much. I even made a PF saying I'd kick people for not knowing Tsukuyomi mechs when farming for materials.

So, if you agree with the premise of “my PF, my rules” and if you dislike the idea of carrying someone through a piece of content, then why bother responding to me at all in the way you did? You clearly don’t disagree with my base premise. Or is it just because you don’t like the things I have to say? I’m more inclined to believe it’s some sort of weird personal beef with me, given that our previous interaction also had me disagreeing with your stance—and as you’ve only been lurking in this thread up until this point; and choose your moment of reveal to be a targeted response towards me. But perhaps I am just overanalyzing the situation.

For the rest of this—as far as I’m aware, I’ve never proclaimed myself to be a “beacon of the community”, nor has anyone else in this thread that is “pro-parser” or “pro-picking-who-I-want-to-do-high-end-content-with”. They’re just responding to the obvious issue illustrated in the OP, in addition to debating the various misconceptions that surround parsers. In all honesty, this isn’t a new conversation. It’s been discussed at length throughout the years I’ve been on here—and neither side has really changed much. But when you’re bored and waiting in 2,000 to 3,000+ queues, guess you gotta pass the time somehow. That’s the reason why I’m in here.

The only reason I've been watching this thread is because I do agree with people who say that parsing should not be used to gatekeep people. Unfortunately, as I've came back from my first time leaving the game, I've started to realize again the reasons I left and it is a little disappointing with how this community behaves.

When it comes to private statics and player-made PFs, gatekeeping is acceptable. We all have the right to choose who we play with when it comes to either of those. Even in randomly matched DF parties, we have the right to choose who we play with. People are free to kick those who don’t contribute to the majority goal just like they’re free to leave a party that clearly doesn’t share their goal, and spend 30 minutes in the Gold Saucer, crafting, gathering, talking with friends, or whatever else they want to do.

I’d have to agree that it is quite disappointing how some people in this community behave. Like attempting to force their way into statics or PFs that very clearly are above them or have different goals from them instead of searching for one more in line with their playstyle or level of skill; or insisting that players blindly report certain PFs because “reasons” or “they’re doing something I personally don’t like”. Or because they believe they’re being righteous in the crusade against third-party tools.

My last comment then back to lurk mode. If people are so obsessed with parsing, why not just create a bot program to play the game for you then? What is the point in having a program tell you how to improve if you aren't doing the improving yourself?

This tells me that you don’t understand how parsers, logs, or performance analysis tools work at all. Parsers do not “play the game for you”. They aren’t a script or a bot. They read Battle Log data and compile it in an easy-to-read format. A glorified calculator. That’s literally all a parse is. That you seem to think they play the game for a person implies you have no idea what you’re talking about. Or you’re just trying to spin some kind of weird strawman argument.

To improve, you first need data to show or tell you what you’re doing wrong. This game does not provide that. If you have been reading this thread and my previous responses—which, your response to me implies that you have—then I already explained how lacking in performance feedback this game is; and it has been a major criticism of mine since I started trying to better myself back in 2016. Even the best indication it gives (enrages) are incredibly vague and will not tell a person or party what the exact problem is.

How do you learn from a problem if you have no idea what it actually is? Once you have the data on-hand, then you can analyze it and pinpoint your mistakes and errors—and then rectify them. That is how you learn.

Maybe I'm just someone of the morality that I want to get better on my own. Growing and learning, not be told by a program that I should've casted F4 when I casted F1. If you need Discord to have someone shouting where to move in a raid, do you really deserve the reward at the end? You didn't learn the fight, you followed a marker.

Good luck!

I don’t know what morality really has to do with any of this, so I’m a bit confused on that part. Just because you use tools to learn doesn’t mean you’re shattering your moral compass… As far as I’m aware, the easiest way to learn from things like rotational mistakes and errors is to analyze when and where said mistakes happened, and learn not to do them again. But you can’t do that unless something points you towards them.

As I said: this game will not tell you that you should have used Fire IV here or there over Fire I or Blizzard I or literally any other skill in your arsenal. So you will never know that you were ever doing anything wrong because this game does not provide that sort of feedback. The only way to know is to gather data, analyze it, and then compare it to other data.

Parsers won’t yell at you “Use Fire IV here!” It requires active analysis and active implementation on your part. A far cry from a botting or script program.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

It’s just hardcore casuals being hardcore casuals. I don’t bother trying to understand their logic at this point.

Stop! Don’t use your logic!! It’s toxic!!

/s

[Didac]

I always have FFLogs open on another tab when I read one of these threads, it's a fun experience.

[JanVanding]

I always have FFLogs open on another tab when I read one of these threads, it's a fun experience.

Well given I was formally against them because people were purely just looking at numbers and not much else, ever since a Ultimate Raider friend of mine introduced me to the log analyser tool, my opinion had changed dramatically to be much more pro parser than I was before.

It's so very easy to stroll along thinking you're doing well and paying not a blind bit of attention because "well it worked in ShB" and "Well at least we are clearing " and not realise just how many mistakes you're actually making, mistakes the parser tool alone can't really point out...

"Oh I'm doing 92.78% uptime I'm doing great" you think with only a green or blue parse (this was me by the way) except I ran that parse through the tool and to my horror...

I'm clipping GCDs like crazy, trying to play much too fast with my rotation and as a result lost over 20 GCDs worth of dps because I was playing too fast...

So because of that information, information I would not have without a parser I'm slowing it down, training out the bad habits and doing a hell of a lot better, but still could be better still.

Without that information, I'd carry on being Naive, not learning, not growing and not being a better player of my job for my FC.

Yes people can be very toxic with parsing, but so can people against them.

I wrote this as this is what parsers are for, the real reason they exist. Don't be afraid to use them for self betterment.

If you're constantly grey, you're doing something wrong.
If you're green/blue you're doing something rotation wise wrong
If you're purple you're close and just need to fine tune and keep practicing
If you're orange or above, congratulations, you're now mastering your job.

[Risvertasashi]

If you're constantly grey, you're doing something wrong.
If you're green/blue you're doing something rotation wise wrong
If you're purple you're close and just need to fine tune and keep practicing
If you're orange or above, congratulations, you're now mastering your job.

Don't take this post to be against parsing in any way, but there's a lot wrong with this.

If you're green/blue you're doing something rotation wise wrong - Or you're playing perfectly but you're behind in gear. Maybe you're not using pots, and in pug runs some people don't want to waste them. Or someone killed you by failing a mechanic, since collateral damage is common in high end content. Or if you're a healer, perhaps your coheal is foisting all the GCD healing onto you.
If you're constantly grey, you're doing something wrong. - Combine factors from above, such as being behind in gear and someone failed a mechanic and took you out. Granted, this wouldn't be constant like being behind in gear would be for a while.
If you're purple you're close and just need to fine tune and keep practicing - Still might be playing perfectly and even geared, but you're in an off-meta comp
If you're orange or above, congratulations, you're now mastering your job. - No. You did your rotation perfectly, but maybe you've been doing that all along. Orange means you're playing in a meta comp with lots of raid buffs and you got good crit RNG on top of that. Congratulations, but mastering your job is only a prerequisite - getting orange requires much beyond that.

This post is why I wish more static recruiters would look deeper than just glancing at the ranking...

[technole]

Body of work is common with an "midcore" or "hardcore" group.

To be fair, a real group would just trial you and do all the raid calculations they need. Because picking someone just on numbers is just a lousy way to recruit alone. You have to see mechanics, and raid fit.

However if they don't know what to expect they might not even consider a trial. Could be other candidates that have calculations and that makes it easier to take someone further in the process.

If you join a more "casual" group then they'll just likely take anyone with any raid experience and go from there.

[JanVanding]

Don't take this post to be against parsing in any way, but there's a lot wrong with this.

If you're green/blue you're doing something rotation wise wrong - Or you're playing perfectly but you're behind in gear. Or someone killed you by failing a mechanic, since collateral damage is common in high end content. Or if you're a healer, perhaps your coheal is foisting all the GCD healing onto you.
If you're constantly grey, you're doing something wrong. - Combine factors from above, such as being behind in gear and someone failed a mechanic and took you out. Granted, this wouldn't be constant like being behind in gear would be for a while.
If you're purple you're close and just need to fine tune and keep practicing - Still might be playing perfectly and even geared, but you're in an off-meta comp
If you're orange or above, congratulations, you're now mastering your job. - No. You did your rotation perfectly, but maybe you've been doing that all along. Orange means you're playing in a meta comp with lots of raid buffs and you got good crit RNG on top of that. Congratulations, but mastering your job is only a prerequisite - getting orange requires much beyond that.

This post is why I wish more static recruiters would look deeper than just glancing at the ranking...

If you die you don't get orange or purple. Keep that in mind.

There's a lot more to it than simply hitting your rotation right we both know that, it's also fight knowledge, mechanical eptitude, buff synching, positioning so you don't cancel autos whenever possible (getting turned around as a ranged will cancel your autos, moving out of range will cancel your autos and autos really matter, they're a good portion of your dps, in the case of the likes of MNK or RPR they're every bit as important as your rotation) knowing when you can greed or when you have to back it off

People don't just get orange by Mastering their rotation

Anyone and I do mean anyone can sit and attack a dummy and get a perfect rotation but in a fight with lots going on? That's where getting good with your rotation matters as if you can rotate AND do the fight correctly, then you're getting that orange parse.

Otherwise, blue man group.

[Risvertasashi]

Anyone and I do mean anyone can sit and attack a dummy and get a perfect rotation but in a fight with lots going on? That's where getting good with your rotation matters as if you can rotate AND do the fight correctly, then you're getting that orange parse.

Otherwise, blue man group.

I was mostly agreeing with your post until this part. People don't get orange just by mastering their rotation, yes, but you still seem to imply it's all personal responsibility. There's factors varying degrees out of your control. In a pug group with 2 physical ranged? You're not getting orange even if you've got plenty of oranges under your belt, even if you know your rotation perfectly, mechanics perfectly, and can execute everything perfectly in the circumstances of those mechanics. Or maybe you will if you get amazing RNG.

In a perfect comp? RNG might still go "F you" and deny you that orange until you do another run.

Mastering one's job is merely the price of entry to have a chance.

Though, I do feel it's worth mentioning FFlogs has plenty of tools for in-depth analysis. I merely wish to caution against trusting ranking too much, for both evaluating one's own performance and for others'. Especially on the eve of savage's release - a lot of people might be doing their rotation fine but not shell out for crafted gear or so on, and the rankings will punish them for that.

[Azuri]

In a perfect comp? RNG might still go "F you" and deny you that orange until you do another run.

This is just plain wrong. If you know what you are doing you can get consistent 95+ even in an average PF group. Yes, even on dancer. Even pinks are entirely within the realm of personal responsibility and a bit of crit luck if you play exceptionally well.

You also heavily overvaluing group composition. Outside of missing role bonus you can parse high in most groups without duplicates. Group does matter when it comes to top spots, sure, but not your average pink.

[FlareVyzar]

Don't take this post to be against parsing in any way, but there's a lot wrong with this.

If you're green/blue you're doing something rotation wise wrong - Or you're playing perfectly but you're behind in gear. Maybe you're not using pots, and in pug runs some people don't want to waste them. Or someone killed you by failing a mechanic, since collateral damage is common in high end content. Or if you're a healer, perhaps your coheal is foisting all the GCD healing onto you.
If you're constantly grey, you're doing something wrong. - Combine factors from above, such as being behind in gear and someone failed a mechanic and took you out. Granted, this wouldn't be constant like being behind in gear would be for a while.
If you're purple you're close and just need to fine tune and keep practicing - Still might be playing perfectly and even geared, but you're in an off-meta comp
If you're orange or above, congratulations, you're now mastering your job. - No. You did your rotation perfectly, but maybe you've been doing that all along. Orange means you're playing in a meta comp with lots of raid buffs and you got good crit RNG on top of that. Congratulations, but mastering your job is only a prerequisite - getting orange requires much beyond that.

This post is why I wish more static recruiters would look deeper than just glancing at the ranking...

About this... normally we will never look at parses without someone being BiS. Parses are only looked at when BiS. Otherwise it is fine to be on the green side. Grey is still not good as you are able to still hit high greens with min ilevel gear even when people are bis.

As for purple/orange, there is no such thing as needing to play in a meta comp group. We are not in SB anymore. It is debatable for heavy rdps reliant jobs to not get their orange when others are performing extremely low but it is not that huge to make a big diff of a 95 to a grey.

At the top parsing level. We do not rely on "crit rng" to get 95s. For 99s, yes we do. Players who are trying to get 95s with crit rng are not really considered to be 95% as they are very inconsistent with their damage. These players never make it on speed kill level due to that.

Getting 95s is extremely easy in non parse, farm parties, clear parties. I get some 99s sometimes even in those parties, so that is definitely possible.

Other than that, "mastering your rotation" is not something we really emphasize on for 95s. Because you can play suboptimally , make a lot of rotation mistakes and still 95 very easily. Mastering rotation is something we aim at 99s.

The gap between 95s and 99s is as big as a mid purple and an orange would be or more.

Have a good day.