[ENDWALKER SPOILER!] On Zenos

[Ryaz]

I just wish we were able to give Zenos a stronger denial in the end than "Think of me what you will". My skin crawls at the thought of my WoL being compared to him and "only seeking the thrill of battle" when everything else falls away. I have reasons to to fight, to protect my friends. Not because I'm some Goku expy who's just looking for stronger opponents for the thrill of it.

I know it's supposed to be some meta shit, but just still ridiculous and immersion breaking for me.

[Bright-Flower]

I just wish we were able to give Zenos a stronger denial in the end than "Think of me what you will". My skin crawls at the thought of my WoL being compared to him and "only seeking the thrill of battle" when everything else falls away. I have reasons to to fight, to protect my friends. Not because I'm some Goku expy who's just looking for stronger opponents for the thrill of it.

I know it's supposed to be some meta shit, but just still ridiculous and immersion breaking for me.

Ultimately, I think the mirror comparison falls flat.

He and the WOL share one thing in common, at most, with the love of pushing ones self and seeking out danger/thrills.

For Zenos that's all he is, the only thing that defines him as a person.

For the WOL, it's just one trait among many. My personal interpretation at the ending is that it's the WOL's desire to see their friends again and go back that calls the remote back to them via dynamus, where as Zenos is left alone with nothing else to live for. The just share that one thing in common but because that one thing is all Zenos is he overestimates their actual bond.

[Aneshda]

Ultimately, I think the mirror comparison falls flat.

He and the WOL share one thing in common, at most, with the love of pushing ones self and seeking out danger/thrills.

For Zenos that's all he is, the only thing that defines him as a person.

For the WOL, it's just one trait among many. My personal interpretation at the ending is that it's the WOL's desire to see their friends again and go back that calls the remote back to them via dynamus, where as Zenos is left alone with nothing else to live for. The just share that one thing in common but because that one thing is all Zenos is he overestimates their actual bond.

It was Zenos who called the remote for the WoL. Go to N-7000 in Ultima Thule and he will tell you that he recieved a Message after an erruption (guess it was after our Fight), which contained only 1 Word, it was an Order "Live".

[Gemina]

It was Zenos who called the remote for the WoL. Go to N-7000 in Ultima Thule and he will tell you that he recieved a Message after an erruption (guess it was after our Fight), which contained only 1 Word, it was an Order "Live".

He doesn't know about the remote though. I suppose there is a slim chance he was informed by Krile prior to his departure, but we're talking paper-thin there. I think there's all kinds of 'cause and effect' at play. The WoL simply did not deserve to die out at the edge of the universe completely away from everyone and everything she/he loves, and whatever intangible forces are out there made sure that didn't happen.

[Iscah]

It was Zenos who called the remote for the WoL. Go to N-7000 in Ultima Thule and he will tell you that he recieved a Message after an erruption (guess it was after our Fight), which contained only 1 Word, it was an Order "Live".

I don't see that as proof the message came from Zenos. He's stranded on the end of the universe and probably didn't think to bring a radio tuned to alien frequencies.

In fact, the quest where that message is described to us indicates that it is Stigma-1's command to all of the Omicrons

I take it that the "powerful burst of energy" triggering the message was in fact Emet and Hyth flooding the zone with aether and allowing us to reclaim the Scions, which also seems to have affected other beings in the vicinity.

And Stigma-1 of course is the "leader" intelligence at least partly housed in M-017, who was spontaneously caring for the living tree and with whom G'raha had to reason to find our path forward.

It makes far more sense to me that the sending of the message was linked with unentangling the Scions – and perhaps the other beings – from the aether of the world once they were no longer required to hold it together. And certainly fitting with the earlier plot for M-017 to be sending that message.

But it's easy to see that the end went way too fast.
HW? All areas are tied to Ishgard and its skyes.
SB? All areas tied to Ala Mhigo or the East.
ShB? All Norvrandt.
EW? You're sent everywhere from the extreme west to Thavnair, go to Garlemald in a finger snap, oh boy here comes the moon.

Endwalker is all over the place, Garlemald conquered territory between Eorzea and the capital? No idea what they look like.

Stormblood itself has always been complained about for being "all over the place", and now it's an example of being stable...?

That irony aside, I think the further we get into the plot, unless we have the time to devote a whole expansion to a single location (say, if we'd done Ilsabard instead of the First) then I think the grand finale was always going to have to cover a multitude of locations. Otherwise either this hypothetical 6.0 prior to finishing with "7.0: Endwalker" is going to have to go to more obscure places while they still save the big event locations for 7.0 (and people ask "why have we still not seen Thavnair yet?"), or they use those locations in 6.0 and then have to find somewhere else to be the target of the Final Days in 7.0, because apparently it's a rule that the big story events have to happen in new zones.

[Gemina]

I don't see that as proof the message came from Zenos. He's stranded on the end of the universe and probably didn't think to bring a radio tuned to alien frequencies.

In fact, the quest where that message is described to us indicates that it is Stigma-1's command to all of the Omicrons

I take it that the "powerful burst of energy" triggering the message was in fact Emet and Hyth flooding the zone with aether and allowing us to reclaim the Scions, which also seems to have affected other beings in the vicinity.

And Stigma-1 of course is the "leader" intelligence at least partly housed in M-017, who was spontaneously caring for the living tree and with whom G'raha had to reason to find our path forward.

It makes far more sense to me that the sending of the message was linked with unentangling the Scions – and perhaps the other beings – from the aether of the world once they were no longer required to hold it together. And certainly fitting with the earlier plot for M-017 to be sending that message.

Not only stranded; he's also very dead, having succumbed to his injuries. Was it his dying wish? Again, there is nothing to indicate that would be true, but also not out of the realm of possibility. I found this on reddit. It's pretty close to how I remember the interactions with the Scions after regaining control of our character after completing the MSQ. The dialogue is from Urianger in specific reference to this incident.

I understand that, following thy clash with Zenos, the teleportation device thou had discarded fell to thee from on high. To return to thee in such a manner... I did confer with Wilfsunn and Bloewyda, yet they insist the device was possessed of no such capability. 'Twas a miracle befitting the nature of that place, where emotion becometh tangible reality. Whence, then, arose this timely wonder? Thine ardent wish...or another's fervent prayer?

I think all we can accurately take from the matter is the will for the WoL to return to their friends and home was beyond anything measurable. Whose will that belongs to is anyone's guess. I feel those intangible forces are at play in this universe as much as it is ours. Hermes is another example of this. Nothing explains why Kairos not only did not truly reconfigure his memory, but also saw fit to ensure these memories would haunt his soul for all eternity; no matter how many times it would be reincarnated before facing oblivion.