[ENDWALKER SPOILER!] On Zenos

[Lium]

Zenos felt a little bit like Kai Leng from Mass Effect 3 to me. The writers wanted to create an equal to Shepherd. A nemesis. Instead it just fell flat and was not at all received well by the players.

At least Zenos was established a couple expansions ago and wasn’t just created on the spot. In a weird way, Asahi would have been a better rival because he would have at least had an emotional motivation to fight and try to kill the WoL. He had a personal stake in it.

All that being said, I didn’t dislike Zenos. I just thought he was rather one note. My biggest issue with him was how he managed to cross the whole universe all by himself so fast when it took several nations on the Source gathering adamantite and sacred relics AND the beast tribes summoning primals to power a ship just so it could achieve what was essentially escape velocity.

Yet Zenos did it no problem. I get he consumed what was left of the Mothercrystal but that still seemed a bit much.

[Lium]

Hold up. If you play a lallafel what does that last cutscene look like when you charge each other and start punching. I bet it’s hilarious.

[Crushnight]

Hold up. If you play a lallafel what does that last cutscene look like when you charge each other and start punching. I bet it’s hilarious.

https://youtu.be/THtEDfILHT4

There you go enjoy the stupid hilarity of Zenos having it out with a potato

[Lium]

https://youtu.be/THtEDfILHT4

There you go enjoy the stupid hilarity of Zenos having it out with a potato

LMAO. Actual LMAO.

[Juzjuzz]

I enjoyed Zenos so far, i see him as a rival for the WoL but not as an aventurer.

[DaemonInazuma]

I loved the fight at the end and I still believe this isn't the last we've seen of Zenos especially with all of the unanswered questions about his avatar, his dreams, and why Emet-Selch experimented on him. Now, if he comes back as the Zenos we know or is reborn is up for speculation. I think this is the send off to this "Zenos."

I've said for a long time that our character is Goku. We are a positive flat character. Our entire purpose in the story is to grow stronger and be the inspiration of hope. If we're Goku, then Zenos is definitely Vegeta.

Zenos starts out as royalty and the strongest of all the garleans. Everything is meaningless to him until we show up. Though he beats us twice, he sees our potential and then finally, we best him. Having played his part to perfection as he says, he ends his life. Except his resonant or will to fight us again prevents him from dying and he goes through an arduous process to recreate that feeling. He tries to provoke us through hate and despair, but our fight is with the Final Days and not him.

Thus, Ishikawa did a great job of using Alisaie to tell Zenos if "he ignore's the plight of others, no one will give him the time of day." This is a great statement from Alisaie, a friend who seeks to surpass the WOL, said to Zenos, a "friend" who seeks to surpass the WOL. Both seek the same thing with one marked difference, Zenos's apathy to everything.

By that simple cutscene, Ishikawa changed Zenos's character for the better, proof in the fact he shows up at the end to help us rather than absorb Meteion or some other nonsense. He CARED that the universe holds together long enough for us to have our fight. To me, the only answer to his question is "That I can't deny." It sums up the purpose of playing any MMO or RPG in general, to grow stronger and rise to the challenge.

Finally after the fight, he asks "Was this life a gift or a burden" and "Did we find fulfillment?" These are rhetorical questions and he dies before he can give his answer. This comes back to my statement above. The dev team will answer these questions, but I have a feeling it will be a long time before they do.

[Loggos]

I've said for a long time that our character is Goku. We are a positive flat character. Our entire purpose in the story is to grow stronger and be the inspiration of hope. If we're Goku, then Zenos is definitely Vegeta.

This analogy does not really work because the reasons why Goku and our WoL are positive "flat" characters are entirely different. Our character is "flat" because the story can't attach too many defined characteristics to a completely open-ended blank-slate character that first and foremost embodies each player's own interpretation of their avatar's personality and role. The generic nature of our character's writing is only a placeholder because we fill in the necessary background the game can't provide.
Goku is not an open-ended character. He has a defined personality and doesn't fulfill the purpose of a place-holder or a blank-slate projection surface for any imaginable personality.
Zenos is the Vegeta to all the WoLs who personally see themselves as Goku.
But the "I mainly go fishing, housing is the true end-game for me and I do the MSQ for the emotions" WoL probably doesn't even need a Vegeta.
The game's nature is rightly that of a theme park and whereas the story has to superimpose some corner stones of storytelling on us, the characterisation of Goku is very specific and not at all a generic role so broad, that it allegedly fits on every WoL regardless of their personality and motives. It is actively at odds with the nature that some players choose and actually act out ingame for their WoL.
In the end your WoL is Goku. That is abolutely fair. But somebody else's may not be Goku.

(Whether or not we can realistically skip the fight and whether the different dialogue options are sufficient to RP your own interpretation of said fight is a different discussion. I'm solely focusing on the "The WoL is Goku" assertion here.)

[StealthPaladin]

All I can say is:

1. I absolutely love Zenos being involved with the ending as he was
2. While both Zenos and WoL avoid being honest about it, you probably really do need Zenos's dragon form to fight the Endbringer
3. When it is all said and done, WoL must surely know if he doesn't face Zenos, he will cause carnage in the future trying to get your attention
4. Zenos is a force of sheer willpower. Originally without aether his strength must logically come from innate dynamis usage, so that's a thing
5. Zenos is obviously not dead, and if he were, it wouldn't matter. Death obviously doesn't stick to Zenos very much -- no like it or not, whereas I certainly do like it, Zenos is very probably somewhat like Kain of FF4 and will soon join your party

[CKNovel]

I like Zenos but I hate his motivations.
If he was more than "Yeah I just want to fight", he could be an amazing character.

But the "Yeah I just want to fight" motivation was just bland.
I'm not asking for a redemption arc, but if he had a change of mind to actually help the Scion for some reason, any reason would work, then sacrifice himself with a cool sentence, it would have worked much better.
Last part with him was good, but all the fundations are bad.

Like Stormblood and ShB we end up with a nice looking house that crumbles because of the terrible fundations.

[Eclair_Xysha]

While I agree on your points, I think, they, the dev team, meant for us to feel like hes an obsessive PITA thorn.
Part of story telling if you will...

Plus, yeah we just defeated evil divinity, why is he that strong, but at the same time, we should be HELLA tired after the battle. For Zenos to be like "Fight me." actually made me think, "Beeeaach, I'm TIRED. Tired of this. Tired of YOU." Would make sense as to why he would appear to be stronger than the deity.

I also think he's really dead this time. He stopped breathing. We all left him there, dead.