[ENDWALKER SPOILER!] On Zenos

[Carin-Eri]

I feel like a lot of people simply don't care for Zenos as a character and are using that opinion to criticise his involvement in the ending, rather than criticising the quality of the writing itself. Personally, I thought Zenos was a complete disappointment in SB and didn't earn his place as a villain on the WoL's level at all, especially because of how he finished himself off. But in EW, even if in the end he didn't end up doing a whole lot plot-wise due to being manipulated by Fandaniel, his arc did come to a satisfying end.

Agree with your post as a whole, but certainly the last paragraph, where you hit the nail on the head. I know, from reaction videos, comments on the forum, Discord and on social media, that there are plenty of players who never forgave Zenos for kicking the WoL's backside when we first fought him in 'In Crimson it Began'.

I've seen numerous comments about how it was ridiculous that the WoL could defeat Primals but was defeated by Zenos - but I feel that they missed the point somewhat. At that point in the game the WoL is powerful in combat with Primals, thanks in major part to the benefit provided by the Echo, but the Echo didn't really come into play Vs Zenos and at that point we had pretty much no experience fighting Garleans solo. When we previously fought against them it was alongside team-mates, either in the form of other players or of NPC supports. We'd never really faced a Garlean one-on-one and certainly not one as powerful and skilled as Zenos.

[Kirisu]

Agree with your post as a whole, but certainly the last paragraph, where you hit the nail on the head. I know, from reaction videos, comments on the forum, Discord and on social media, that there are plenty of players who never forgave Zenos for kicking the WoL's backside when we first fought him in 'In Crimson it Began'.

I've seen numerous comments about how it was ridiculous that the WoL could defeat Primals but was defeated by Zenos - but I feel that they missed the point somewhat. At that point in the game the WoL is powerful in combat with Primals, thanks in major part to the benefit provided by the Echo, but the Echo didn't really come into play Vs Zenos and at that point we had pretty much no experience fighting Garleans solo. When we previously fought against them it was alongside team-mates, either in the form of other players or of NPC supports. We'd never really faced a Garlean one-on-one and certainly not one as powerful and skilled as Zenos.

I agree, the WoL at the time was long overdue for the old Jackie Chun maneuver, but since we didn't have an Old Master on hand Zenos got the job and he did it splendidly.

Concentravity was a nice touch actually, the first time we face him it brought us to our knees, almost flat off our feet! In Doma we can withstand it and stay on our feet, but it still hurts like a motherfucker. In Ala Mhigo it's bearable, with a healer its even negligible! Then when we face Zelidibus it's barely an itch, and in our rematch at the Edge of the Universe he's completly discarded it, he knows that technique doesn't work anymore.

[Cleretic]

I agree, the WoL at the time was long overdue for the old Jackie Chun maneuver, but since we didn't have an Old Master on hand Zenos got the job and he did it splendidly.

We got an old master the next expansion, people liked him even less!

[Kirisu]

We got an old master the next expansion, people liked him even less!

To be fair, we'd already had our slice of humble pie at that point, Ran'jit was just force-feeding us the rest of it. Even I'm less forgiving of that and I actually like Ran'jit! XD

[MagiusNecros]

We got an old master the next expansion, people liked him even less!

People just don't appreciate the Final Fantasy version of Mercenary Tao.

[Kirisu]

...I can't unsee that now, his idle stance is exactly the same. XD

edit: truth is though, that's a pretty apt comparison in more ways than just the one. Because Mercenary Tao was the first enemy to prove Roshi's point, there is... and always will be, someone stronger out there to challlenge you. And even if that isn't the case it's better to assume that it is, because the status quo won't hold, it never does.

[Cleretic]

I compare him to Master Asia of G Gundam personally (he's even got the 'aligned with weird corruptive force but completely human himself' thing going), but it's basically a difference by degrees. He's the villain in a kung-fu story, there to challenge the protagonist's ideals and combat technique both.

[Kirisu]

He's the villain in a kung-fu story, there to challenge the protagonist's ideals and combat technique both.

Yeah that's an apt description, though if anything I think the final clash at Eulmore was a mistake. Ran'jit was more Thancred's foil than ours, so him showing up again in Eulmore to bar the WoL's path instead of Thancred's was a misstep. He should've died in Ahm Araeng, holding fast to his convictions in defeat.

[RukoBoshi]

Yeah that's an apt description, though if anything I think the final clash at Eulmore was a mistake. Ran'jit was more Thancred's foil than ours, so him showing up again in Eulmore to bar the WoL's path instead of Thancred's was a misstep. He should've died in Ahm Araeng, holding fast to his convictions in defeat.

I agree, it would have been better considering how little development Ranjit got.

I would have been fine if we fought him if he was half dead and decide to eat meol to allow himself to turn into a sin eater and defend Don Vauthry.

That way Thancred can defeat him without the player being robbed of a good fight with him.

[Absimiliard]

Just gonna leave this here....

The School of the Undefeated of the East!
The Winds of the King!
Zenshin!
Keiretsu!
Tenpa kyoran!
Look, the East is Burning Red!