[ENDWALKER SPOILER!] On Zenos

[QCrimson]

I also quite enjoyed the part Zenos played in the story. To me everything isn't about moving the plot forward or making perfect sense, it's also about addressing maybe less obvious issues like

bringing some much-needed levity to the story. The ending is filled with nothing but dread, depression, tears and hopelesness, so having him arrive from nowhere in the form of a giant dragon to help us win the day was a good way for the story to make fun of itself, and surprise the players. Make them feel empowered even. Which is ultimately the goal of the writers, at least I'd like to think so.

Also and most importantly, acknowledging an aspect of the playerbase that is rarely evoked in the plot. We are nothing like the WoL. We don't play XIV to make the world a better place (or do we ?), yeah like them we probably enjoy forming new bonds and adventuring with people but the main goal is mostly to feel good about ourselves. We enjoy the challenge, the progression through hard content, the betterment of our character through levels, crafts and loots or amassing of wealth. Unlike the WoL's, our motivations are egotistical for the most part (sorry to you good-doers out there) and this, imo, creates some kind of narrative dissonance, and it's quite the hindrance when you want the player to feel like they are the WoL.

Zenos allows us to acknowledge that. To say out loud that despite all our grand deeds and pretty words we are also driven by selfish motives. And that, at it the end of the day, it's perfectly ok. We might not be the perfect embodiment of light but the writers still give us the thumbs up, they still recognize us as the WoL. That's the sort of communion and resonance they are going for... Well at least that's the way I feel.

Which is why I think Zenos is great in EW.

[MirronTulaxia]

Eh, I don’t really buy that kind of analysis. I’ve heard all the ones in favor of Zenos and it’s just missing something.

I think you could do levity with a number of other options (giant Argo showing up certainly would work) or other surprise reveals. And honestly the analysis you have might work if I had any interest in fighting Zenos or didn’t enjoy helping others primarily. I’m not in it for combat, just for lore and the characters mostly. The logic suggests we should have had a big time raiding Ea archives after if secret desires that are selfish is what we do.

[Insertusernamehere]

I feel like he is a example of Xande's final desperate form.. "a hole he is unable to fill" and feels like he is exactly walking same path like Xande did.. meaningless empty after death resurrection experience and game trying to point it..

[wereotter]

I was very annoyed with how it handled him too. They never gave me dialogue options anywhere close to things I'd actually say to him. Even at the end, had it been me in the situation, things would have gone very differently. My entire tactic would be at this point to just ignore him and show him he's never going to get what he wants from me.

[MagiusNecros]

As Zenos is effectively Shinryu now I don't think he is dead as his is now the ability of which Omega and GILGAMESH share which is the power to traverse the Dimensional Rift. Even at the edge of creation should he wish it he can easily escape.

IF he did die I'd imagine his body would have turned to Aether. It did not it simply lays there. Leaves it open for him to come back should the plot going forward demand it.

And regardless if he is irredeemable without him Eorzea and it's reflections would no longer exist as he literally carried the fight on his back. Good and Evil join forces to combat an existential threat.

And Zenos's determination is to seek the ultimate fight as he lives his life out of selfishness as he only truly "feels alive" through the "sparks" of battle. Which we did give him as his just reward on virtue of being too dangerous or because the WoL enjoys the fight itself and the Edge of Creation leaves the 2 able to duke it out without restraint or regard for others.

Even in victory we also fall over at about the same time. I'd say personally that the strength of Zenos and the WoL is still equal. Making them perfect rivals.

That said he is one of few who talks to "you" as an individual and not the "Hero" you are prophesized to be.

I don't think Zenos is done yet. But if he is he went out like a boss. Screw the haters.

[Zoliru]

I would say I am very disappointed in them not using Zenos appropriately when it came to Meiteion, since meeting Meiteion it was becoming clear she could end up being the big bad by meeting some one or some entity that has feelings so strong it breaks them, so one of the best opportunities to do that is by making her meet Zenos, meet someone who is the opposite of WoL and has emotions on a level that would scare even her after all the despair she found out.
Quite a wasted opportunity, even a small reference to her sensing Zenos' feelings would have been nice.


In addition, there's a number of reasons I feel Zenos isnt dead

1) Still 0 info about his dreams of the final days, and those dreams were referenced in endwalker so they clearly werent something that was forgotten and simply has yet to be revealed.
2) Um, he is left in a place dominated by Dynamis, Zenos, a person with extremely strong feelings.
I am guessing even a fraction of his even subconscious feelings could heal him or even bring him back, remember that meiteion said "feelings control reality here" so him just getting back up could be very possible.

And tbh I want him to come back, I was so disappointed that he doesnt win the duel, it would have been a great moment of satisfaction for him and would allow us to have a future rematch on an expansion where Zenos would play a bigger role because tbh, his role was quite small in endwalker.

[wereotter]

2) Um, he is left in a place dominated by Dynamis, Zenos, a person with extremely strong feelings.
I am guessing even a fraction of his even subconscious feelings could heal him or even bring him back, remember that meiteion said "feelings control reality here" so him just getting back up could be very possible.

I mean no one is dead until they confirm them dead (see also Nanamo, Gaius, and Nero) BUT.... we left Zenos as close to death as he left us, and we survived thanks to Alphinaud's emergency ministrations. So there's a good reason to believe that he died out there at the edge of the universe.

[SkyEdge1]

As someone who likes Zenos, I think this final fight against him was supposed to leave you unsatisfied.


They certainly went out of their way to make the WOL feel thoroughly fed up with him.
How could you not? We have the potential death of the whole universe on our hands, yet this guy stands in front of us in a country he ruined, thinking still only of his own satisfaction!


And Zenos does actually think about her words, as we see in that CS of him revisiting the Royal Menagerie in Ala Mhigo.



But when both Zenos and the WOL lie dying, he realizes that while the battle gave him bliss, it is short-lived and fleeting.
When he asks if you, his mirror, found fulfillment I was thinking: "No! Of course not!"

He starts with "I...", but dies before he can answer his own question.

I'm of the same mentality, I loved Zenos as a parallel to the WoL. Because we are not so different in execution if not in intent. How many countless mobs, monsters and (frankly) just natural fauna have we decimated in pursuit of our single minded goal of saving the realm. What makes his final moments to me so poignant is that (think anyways) Zenos realized he is going to lose, in terms of Raw power he doesn't want to win against us, I belive he realizes he cannot, he, by his own words wants a battle where he can fight and spend the entirety of his lifes force and energy, his very being against us. He is the wave crashing against our insurmountable wall, and that is the ONLY thing he has to give us. His full unbridled and unfettered attempt to strike at our might. And us, as an adventurer, as a wanderer in search of new and exciting things how could we see that as anything other than a rival posing a challenge. Thats why that fight, in all its anime cringe felt so freaking great to me. Again tho, just my lens!

[Illmaeran]

I just finished the MSQ and have the same opinion as I did previously; he needs to stay dead. This was a proper end to his arc and character. His time came and went. Leave him to rot in that interstellar/interdimensional space.

[Denishia]

As someone who was bored to apathy by Zenos before even the first instanced duty in Rhalgar's Reach and whose opinion on the character only plummeted, in part because his 'lives only to fight' single note characterization does not work as either something I find appealing or as a dark foil to my WoL/me as a player. But! I was deeply amused that Zenos's role in Endwalker was to be confronted with his own irrelevancy to the WoL and the narrative. He never felt like my WoL's rival or the one I had felt compelled to stop - in SB that was Fordola and Yotsuyu, ShB he was nothing, and EW it was Fandaniel(at first). That we turned away from him and then later Alisaie read him the riot act was cathartic. I was calling him "Team Rocket" in my head throughout EW, except I felt that was an insult to Jessie and James.

On the final fight- I was at first elated because I thought the MSQ was at least giving us the false option to walk away from Zenos's proposed fight. I wanted our WoL to at least attempt to before the story rails forced this last fight. Which, for once, wasn't completely boring. (One of my many issues with Zenos is the contradiction that he only cares about fighting the WoL as the only exciting fight- and yet his fights in solo duties and Ala Mhigo are ones that I found yawn-inducing and only the Shinryu fight fun). So if this Cloud versus Sephiroth at the Edge of Creation duel is the way to finally rid ourselves of this wannabe villain, so be it.
But as my FC teases, I'm a FSH main. Zenos needs to have fought against the RNG of reaching Grandmaster Caster/Big Fish, and then we can be archrivals in glorious competition.