Its exactly like every DRK thought.

[Ryaduera]

Yet it's a good metric to show just how much potential the tanks have in the category if the chips were down and you were forced to do it to survive.

It also bothers me when people don't use free resources just to make things easier in casual content. Sure, you only get a little value out of some abilities in some places, especially in casual content, but do you know how much value you get out of an ability you don't use? None. And a little is more than none.

[ThorneDynasty]

PPM is a very stupid metric to use because you don't pop everything the moment it's on cooldown. The stats in that thread lack so much context they're basically worthless.

For instance they seem to think you'll be using divine veil and shake it off on cooldown as personal shields? (Let's ignore the fact that they think divine veil applies to the PLD for second here.) It also ignores the fact that PLD has passive blocking as an extra, unique form of mitigation that none of the other tanks have.

It's dumb.

This might have any merit if DRK had literally any on-demand burst healing capability, in the sense what does it matter if you have ten or one healing skills if you never need more than one (which I don't think has been shown to be the case). But it only has a 60s cooldown and only in multi-target encounters.

[Praesul]

Everything I said still applies. PPM is a stupid, misleading metric to use. There is a gap in healing capabilities between the jobs that's for sure, but it's not as wide as PPM would lead you to believe because again, you don't use everything on CD. Unless you think using equilibrium at full HP is a good idea, in which case you shouldn't even take part in this discussion. You also do not use shake it off on cooldown as a personal defensive ability. These stats are near worthless, no ifs ands or buts.
It also fails to take into account how mitigation affects shields, because % mitigation will make shields even stronger whereas it has no effect on cure potencies.

There's legitimate things you could point to as evidence for buffing this job or that, but these stats are not them. Rework living dead, buff oblation or TBN, rework blood weapon, all of these are valid complaints. But "whoah look at how much shield and heal ppm all the other tanks have!" is not valid because that's just not how the game works at all.

It would be like pointing out how high some dps job bursts within the first 10 seconds of an encounter and calling for nerfs just based on those metrics when in actuality it's damage output levels off and is within range of everyone else once you get past those 10 seconds.

[Ryaduera]

It would be like pointing out how high some dps job bursts within the first 10 seconds of an encounter and calling for nerfs just based on those metrics when in actuality it's damage output levels off and is within range of everyone else once you get past those 10 seconds.

Except that with tanks, those moments define how the encounter will go. When a DPS goes down it sucks, but just res and try to fit yourself in the next burst window, move on. A tank goes down? Much larger issue. The maximum potential of a tank must be considered especially given the colossal difference and canyon-wide gap.

[Lyth]

...

Players tend to be quite greedy when it comes to identities. It's never just about focusing in on one thing, they want all the good things. One of the things that I'm enjoying about melee dps at the moment is that the jobs feel much more varied. You can only really have that if you respect job boundaries and give them all an opportunity to have an identity. WAR is spread so widely across so many areas that it stifles game design. I don't think you could come up with a fifth tank at this point.

[Xiaoki]

Everything I said still applies. PPM is a stupid, misleading metric to use. There is a gap in healing capabilities between the jobs that's for sure, but it's not as wide as PPM would lead you to believe because again, you don't use everything on CD. Unless you think using equilibrium at full HP is a good idea, in which case you shouldn't even take part in this discussion. You also do not use shake it off on cooldown as a personal defensive ability. These stats are near worthless, no ifs ands or buts.
It also fails to take into account how mitigation affects shields, because % mitigation will make shields even stronger whereas it has no effect on cure potencies.

There's legitimate things you could point to as evidence for buffing this job or that, but these stats are not them. Rework living dead, buff oblation or TBN, rework blood weapon, all of these are valid complaints. But "whoah look at how much shield and heal ppm all the other tanks have!" is not valid because that's just not how the game works at all.

It would be like pointing out how high some dps job bursts within the first 10 seconds of an encounter and calling for nerfs just based on those metrics when in actuality it's damage output levels off and is within range of everyone else once you get past those 10 seconds.

Yes, everything you say is 100% true and it's even pointed out in the Reddit thread but you are missing the main point.

That being "WAR is the best, DRK is the worst"

And that's all people here need to believe it as gospel.

[Valknut]

Everything I said still applies. PPM is a stupid, misleading metric to use. There is a gap in healing capabilities between the jobs that's for sure, but it's not as wide as PPM would lead you to believe because again, you don't use everything on CD. Unless you think using equilibrium at full HP is a good idea, in which case you shouldn't even take part in this discussion. You also do not use shake it off on cooldown as a personal defensive ability. These stats are near worthless, no ifs ands or buts.
It also fails to take into account how mitigation affects shields, because % mitigation will make shields even stronger whereas it has no effect on cure potencies.

There's legitimate things you could point to as evidence for buffing this job or that, but these stats are not them. Rework living dead, buff oblation or TBN, rework blood weapon, all of these are valid complaints. But "whoah look at how much shield and heal ppm all the other tanks have!" is not valid because that's just not how the game works at all.

It would be like pointing out how high some dps job bursts within the first 10 seconds of an encounter and calling for nerfs just based on those metrics when in actuality it's damage output levels off and is within range of everyone else once you get past those 10 seconds.

I disagree 100%

An if you played DRK, you would to. Your welcome to the FFlogs, instead of the PPM to deny the facts if you want, they are also their in the main post. Also the main issue of DRK vs other tanks right now is wall to wall pulling in dungeons, and nothing else. Guess how long wall to wall pulls last? About 1 min.

[Absimiliard]

This might have any merit if DRK had literally any on-demand burst healing capability

DRK has an excellent on-demand burst healing skill. It's called death and respawn, and it completely refills your health.

[Xiaoki]

I disagree 100%

An if you played DRK, you would to. Your welcome to the FFlogs, instead of the PPM to deny the facts if you want, they are also their in the main post. Also the main issue of DRK vs other tanks right now is wall to wall pulling in dungeons, and nothing else. Guess how long wall to wall pulls last? About 1 min.

Dark Knight's main issue is dungeons?

What?!

Well then, lets check FFLogs for dungeon runs. Oh, yeah, they don't log dungeons because no one cares about dungeons.

Dungeons only purpose is for Tomestones. And they quickly become trivial on any Job in the entire game with raid gear.
You know, the gear that drops from raids.
Oh ...uh ...Raids are like dungeons but instead of 4 players you have 8 players.
Also, Extreme, Savage and Ultimate difficulty raids are the only content that matters what Job you are and how well your Job performs.

[Kalaam]

Let's stop pretending that dungeons do not exist.
If your job does terrible in a dungeon, it is not fun. For you or anyone else in the dungeon with you.
"Yes but what matters is savage and ultimates" hell no. Not everyone bothers with that.
Dungeon is the vast majority of the game's content mind you, so yes a job should at least be fun to play and effective there before considering how effective they are in high difficulty content.