Endwalker's message (spoilers!)

[Zukkii]

What a lot of people in this thread fail to realize, is that Venat's actions were the only ones who would break the cycle of the Final Days. Had the Ancients been successful in recreating their paradise, they would cause the Final Days again.

The reason why this would happen, is because they did not understood plight, suffering, and despair. They were all akin to gods in their own right, and they only knew of paradise. Emet-Selch's responses to Hermes proves that they wouldn't learn. In short, the Ancients seemingly perfections would obstruct them from learning about life's imperfections. Venat knew that this would happen, as she was already more enlightened than most of the other Ancients.

If Venat would tell the Convocation, then the only people who would be able to fix the problem would be unmade. Mankind of the future was the only one who would be able to deal with it, BECAUSE they suffer. They would be best equipped with dealing with it, because they found joy and meaning in the small happy moments. They basically spelled this part out within the story too, so I know not how it was missed.

Oh, and if Venat would tell the Convocation, she would become a pariah immediately. Place yourself in one of the members of the Convocation's seat, and think about how you would respond.
The woman who refuses to return to the star because "she feels she has yet another purpose" says that the end of the world is coming, and the people who were present were Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus but their memories are wiped.

Anyone remember Harold Camping and how everyone treated him like a fool and disillusioned old man? That's what would happen to Venat.

[KizuyaKatogami]

snip

Once again, Hades and Hythlo took their duties of the star very seriously. Even if they didn’t fully believe us, they worked with us in the off chance we were right and there was a threat to the star. Knowing this, and then combining it with the fact they literally knew they were mind wiped, it wouldn’t take much to convince them of what happened and how to move forward. Again, i don’t understand this obsession with saying the Ancients didn’t know suffering. The short stories go over this and show they did indeed. Especially after the final days, they suffered, and their hope gave rise to Zodiark who at that point saved them and the world and bought them time in which had Venat been open to Hades and Hythlo, they perhaps could’ve come to a resolution. The fact is they were never given a chance. Meteion was the one who did everything anyhow. I mean look at the dragons. They literally did nothing wrong yet still got harassed because ???. She decided to play God, keep secrets and lie, create another problem and then shatter the world, all to what? Make people suffer? That’s abuse mentality right there, especially when she has the audacity to call them all her children, but then was going to leave all of the shards to die and only the source would evacuate should worst come to worst. Amazing Mother.

[Theodric]

I'm more inclined to suggest that if Venat wasn't a pretty woman who shed tears when she wiped out her people, very few people would sympathise with her. If the Sundered were able to find a way to defy their fate, then it stands to reason that the much more powerful and influential Unsundered could have done the same thing. It wasn't that Venat had some grand plan that meant she was actually the most intelligent person in the entire universe and knew some secret that numerous other Stars were unable to deduce. It's that she deliberately took away the ability of her own people to successfully fight against a threat and then claimed credit for something that she, herself, wasn't even responsible for.

Even after the Sundering, it was Zodiark who served as the ward against the Final Days. It was Zodiark who bought time against Meteion, not Hydaelyn. Furthermore, the Sundered would not have succeeded in any meaningful capacity if not for the numerous forms of aid provided by stronger beings, including the Unsundered, Midgardsomr and Hydaelyn's 'blessing'.

Ultimately, she didn't even try to approach the Convocation despite Emet-Selch making it perfectly clear that even in cases were he was sceptical about something, he had a duty to investigate for the sake of the Star. As a former member of the Convocation herself, Venat was also a highly respected figure within her society - so the idea that nobody would give her the time of day is strange, especially when a previous quest established her ability to show others memories imprinted upon the land...

As for the whole 'suffering is needed' angle, that doesn't make much sense either - because, again, numerous other Stars endured suffering to various degrees. Yet not a single person could rise up against Meteion until the Scions showed up? I don't buy it - since Venat simply contributed to denying many others the opportunity to do as much simply because she decided to embrace her delusions of grandeur and style herself as a goddess for reasons that weren't even explained.

[Kozh]

Venat's actions were the only ones who would break the cycle of the Final Days. Had the Ancients been successful in recreating their paradise, they would cause the Final Days again.

Final days only happen because Hermes being stupid and dynamis being an unknown force. Supposedly Venat told everyone what really happened, I believe the Ancients will be able to prevent another "Hermes" to be born.

The reason why this would happen, is because they did not understood plight, suffering, and despair. Emet-Selch's responses to Hermes proves that they wouldn't learn. In short, the Ancients seemingly perfections would obstruct them from learning about life's imperfections. Venat knew that this would happen, as she was already more enlightened than most of the other Ancients.

They don't know suffering and despair?? Even the Pandaemonium raid show how even during their peaceful times, the Ancients aren't some sort of peaceful hive mind that's unable to perceive sadness. They still have conflicts with each other, they still feel sadness when someone they love is gone. The only difference is that those feelings are rarer compared to sundered life. But it's unfair to impose our standard on them.

Venat is "more enlighten" just because she heard about some adventures from one guy from the future, then decided the fate of the star by herself, a message that previously is deemed a bad thing by the game.

Mankind of the future was the only one who would be able to deal with it, BECAUSE they suffer. They would be best equipped with dealing with it, because they found joy and meaning in the small happy moments.

Only half true. The point isn't just "feel suffering", but because she thinks having more control of dynamis will help them fight meteion since she's made of dynamis. Hence, the sundering.

Oh, and if Venat would tell the Convocation, she would become a pariah immediately. Place yourself in one of the members of the Convocation's seat, and think about how you would respond.

Except Venat is the previous Azem, one of the convocation which was highly regarded. See how she's still respected by the other Ancients on elpis? And this is a story in magical setting when fate and prophecy are the norm. Regarding the memory loss thing, many people already pointed out that: 1) she can do the "show the past" using environmental aether like when she help us; 2) I refuse to believe that the Ancients, master of magic, can't research a spell to reverse kairos effect.

Even if option 1 and 2 aren't successful, once the final days start it will only prove her right and they will listen to her. Remember that the final days reach Amaurot last and they actually still had time to debate and research about it.

[Rulakir]

The Scions rarely convey that they've felt that type of loss, even if they are of the few who have. It's a hard sell to me to feel like they've walked with despair, as they mostly spurn it at every turn or are shielded from it entirely.

My condolences. I've lost a lot of family as well, including my parents. I've also been witness to the slow, painful deterioration that cancer causes. Having to watch from the sidelines helpless to do anything, conflicted between not wanting to lose them and wanting their suffering to end.

Coupled with my depression, maybe I've experienced too much trauma and grief to find EW's message or most of its characters relatable.

[Yencat]

I'm more inclined to suggest that if Venat wasn't a pretty woman who shed tears when she wiped out her people, very few people would sympathise with her.

If the Ascians looked like Vauthry people wouldn't be nearly as sympathetic to them either, they struck fanboy/fangirl gold with with pretty much all the Ancients.

[KizuyaKatogami]

If the Ascians looked like Vauthry people wouldn't be nearly as sympathetic to them either, they struck fanboy/fangirl gold with with pretty much all the Ancients.

Tbf, most of them we dont even know what they look like behind their mask lol.

[Theodric]

If the Ascians looked like Vauthry people wouldn't be nearly as sympathetic to them either, they struck fanboy/fangirl gold with with pretty much all the Ancients.

I doubt that, since a lot of people who have sympathised with the Ascians and Ancients did so due to their circumstances and story, rather than what they looked like. Certainly, in some cases the appearance is a bonus - though I noticed that there's far less sturdy ground for those defending Venat to stand upon by comparison, given her lack of a solidified goal and no real effort to explain her motives at length.

Incidentally, though, Vauthry ended up as far more sympathetic to me than Venat. I found him to be entertaining throughout Shadowbringers, much in the same way as Queen Brahne from FFIX. I guess it helps that he genuinely believed in his plans whereas Venat couldn't help but be vague and hypocritical right up until the very end.

[RoroCookies]

If the Ascians looked like Vauthry people wouldn't be nearly as sympathetic to them either, they struck fanboy/fangirl gold with with pretty much all the Ancients.

This. I still see people throw Zodiark under the bus even though he is literally the reason why the star exists today. Without Zodiark’s aether shield and restoring life there wouldn’t be anything left of the star. Yet Venat gets all the credit for some reason.

[Lauront]

I doubt that, since a lot of people who have sympathised with the Ascians and Ancients did so due to their circumstances and story, rather than what they looked like. Certainly, in some cases the appearance is a bonus - though I noticed that there's far less sturdy ground for those defending Venat to stand upon by comparison, given her lack of a solidified goal and no real effort to explain her motives at length.

Incidentally, though, Vauthry ended up as far more sympathetic to me than Venat. I found him to be entertaining throughout Shadowbringers, much in the same way as Queen Brahne from FFIX. I guess it helps that he genuinely believed in his plans whereas Venat couldn't help but be vague and hypocritical right up until the very end.

It's nonsense, in any case. People have come to like the Ascians in spite of them having a rather rough reputation initially, through learning what they went through and who they truly were - for the longest time they were presented as villainous, particularly if you did not pay close attention to Elidibus as a character. Hydaelyn has been pushed on us as benevolent since the outset.

This. I still see people throw Zodiark under the bus even though he is literally the reason why the star exists today. Without Zodiark’s aether shield and restoring life there wouldn’t be anything left of the star. Yet Venat gets all the credit for some reason.

I'd re-read her post. She's not making that point. Quite the opposite. Though I agree.