Endwalker's message (spoilers!)

[Yencat]

Incidentally, though, Vauthry ended up as far more sympathetic to me than Venat. I found him to be entertaining throughout Shadowbringers, much in the same way as Queen Brahne from FFIX

His story was definitely pretty sad, he never even had a chance to be a different kind of person.

Brahne is a good example because she's also pretty much seen as a joke character because of how she looks.

[Lauront]

Eh, debatable. The Ascians ultimately had a sympathetic backstory regardless of their appearance. I can't say the same for Venat.

Taking appearances out entirely, I tell you there's someone who knows the future. They know all the details including not only the end of their civilization, but the deaths of numerous worlds. Knowing this, they not only do nothing to prevent it, but actively ensure that the future they know about comes to pass. Would you think this person a protagonist or an antagonist?

I tell you there's 3 people who's world was destroyed. Their civilization is gone, their loved ones have been turned into malformed creatures with no memories. They spend the next 12k+ years trying to make everyone whole again and restore what was lost. Would you think them antagonists or protagonists?

Plus she just springs it on them after a disagreement, and had no clear rationale initially other than a preference for ambiguous "new lives", which based on the cool-headed approach her summoners were taking, could very well have been similar to the creatures the ancients created to integrate in the world. So she had to be supplied said rationale through time travel antics to make it not seem totally capricious and unreasonable.

[Iscah]

Plus she just springs it on them after a disagreement, and had no clear rationale initially other than a preference for ambiguous "new lives"

The presentation we get of the Sundering is frustratingly non-literal and I don't know if we're supposed to take that as how the confrontation went or not. In the same sequence we see Hyth farewelling Hades, which can't be part of the same event as he must have been one of the first two successful sacrifices to Zodiark (since his soul is up there on the moon) some time before Venat/Hydaelyn prevented the third from taking place.

If nothing else, from the cave paintings in Qitana I was expecting to see more of an epic clash of goddess-Hydaelyn against Zodiark than "Venat walks in and stabs the ground".

[Rokke]

If the Ascians looked like Vauthry people wouldn't be nearly as sympathetic to them either, they struck fanboy/fangirl gold with with pretty much all the Ancients.

To an extent... but at the same time, people first fell in love with Hyth back when he was literally faceless in SHB lol

[Yencat]

To an extent... but at the same time, people first fell in love with Hyth back when he was literally faceless in SHB lol

And with Hydaelyn when she was still just a big floating mommy crystal.

I'm not even saying it's a bad thing at all, just saying the ones we've seen turned out to be very gorgeous people and it helps their appeal.

I'm not team Venat (or anyone else) and I'm not even a huge fan of how they decided to wrap this up, it kind of felt like they had already committed to closing this story arc so they ham-fisted it a bit leaving a lot of questions on all sides.

[Iscah]

To an extent... but at the same time, people first fell in love with Hyth back when he was literally faceless in SHB lol

I'm one of those, but he just seemed nice. Emet was far harder to sympathise with because of all the awful things he has done – stirring up empires and wars, his first introduction being quite awful and manipulative to Varis... since then they've done a lot more looking at who he was before all that, though I could never quite reconcile that encouraged sympathy with him inflicting suffering on so many people. It's good to hear his younger untempered self be so horrified by the prospect of his later actions, though.

[Theodric]

I'm one of those, but he just seemed nice. Emet was far harder to sympathise with because of all the awful things he has done – stirring up empires and wars, his first introduction being quite awful and manipulative to Varis... since then they've done a lot more looking at who he was before all that, though I could never quite reconcile that encouraged sympathy with him inflicting suffering on so many people. It's good to hear his younger untempered self be so horrified by the prospect of his later actions, though.

To be fair, the only reason he engaged in all of that was due to Venat's actions...

Ultimately he worked to attempt to prevent his race and culture from being wiped out entirely, which is an admirable enough goal. The alternative would be to simply roll over and die. It's much the same for the Garleans, really - had they not done what they did, they would have been wiped out.

Ultimately, Venat is to blame for much of the story's conflicts. She is the one who forced the existence of such suffering, by her own admission. Emet was simply seeking the preservation of his people, which is an admirable act. It's unfortunate that such would come at the cost of other beings, though the only reason it came to that is due to - again - Venat.

Considering how much art and fanfic Emet gets for being a hot sad dude, this is debatable at best, hypocritical at worst. Its so easy to reduce characters popularity to something basic

There is absolute no way to prove people who like Venat do so for her looks more then her character then there is to prove the same for the Emet.

I don't think it's hypocritical. Especially when there's a big difference in regards to how the player character is forced to interact with sad female characters compared to sad male characters. There's also a lot of people over on the lore forum who defended Hydaelyn/Venat for years based on her 'soft voice' and being a 'benevolent mother'. Apologies if I hit a nerve, though - it most certainly wasn't my intention!

[Slatersev]

I'm more inclined to suggest that if Venat wasn't a pretty woman who shed tears when she wiped out her people, very few people would sympathise with her.

Considering how much art and fanfic Emet gets for being a hot sad dude, this is debatable at best, hypocritical at worst. Its so easy to reduce characters popularity to something basic

There is absolute no way to prove people who like Venat do so for her looks more then her character then there is to prove the same for the Emet.

[Garnetiferous]

Considering how much art and fanfic Emet gets for being a hot sad dude, this is debatable at best, hypocritical at worst. Its so easy to reduce characters popularity to something basic

There is absolute no way to prove people who like Venat do so for her looks more then her character then there is to prove the same for the Emet.

While I agree with you on the point about Venat's looks being the primary reason why people like her (I don't think that's the reason, I think its the way she's portrayed in the story) in Emet's case, he actually was not intended to be hot. (tbh I think he looks pretty average) I think it was his story that made him attractive to the player base, not his appearance. I don't recall him being that popular when he first showed up in towards the end of stormblood although ofc I could be wrong.

[Rokke]

While I agree with you on the point about Venat's looks being the primary reason why people like her (I don't think that's the reason, I think its the way she's portrayed in the story) in Emet's case, he actually was not intended to be hot. (tbh I think he looks pretty average) I think it was his story that made him attractive to the player base, not his appearance. I don't recall him being that popular when he first showed up in towards the end of stormblood although ofc I could be wrong.

He wasn't particularly popular in SB. I remember people groaning over Ascians being reintroduced to the plot because at the time they were flatter than Zenos character-wise. No one could have guessed what we were in for :P

And yeah, I don't find SHB Emet or Elpis Emet pretty/handsome (especially standing next to Hermes and Hyth) but the combo of his mannerisms and story made him my fav. I think the character designer even said they were surprised he was so popular because he wasn't Final Fantasy Handsome Anime Man™