Tank healing is to high

[Shurrikhan]

Yeah like I said before. Bloodwhetting is pretty gimp on a single target...I don't know why some are emphasizing tank healing is broken.

Bloodwhetting is broke at both ends. Its heal is damn near 8 seconds of invulnerability in AoE and barely a trickle in ST. The percent of damage dealt as per 5.x Nascent, though it obliged us to sync our CDs and spenders to it, struck a far better balance.

Dungeons are undertuned, yes, obviously, but negligent designs like flat heals per hit are an issue, too.

[Undeadfire]

Bloodwhetting is broke at both ends. Its heal is damn near 8 seconds of invulnerability in AoE and barely a trickle in ST. The percent of damage dealt as per 5.x Nascent, though it obliged us to sync our CDs and spenders to it, struck a far better balance.

Dungeons are undertuned, yes, obviously, but negligent designs like flat heals per hit are an issue, too.

I grant it to Extreme Trials too, Healers can almost completely ignore the tanks need.

[Ashua]

The game teaches you that your role as a healer is make sure that the party doesn't die, one way to ensure that is by killing the enemies, the Hall of the Novice even teaches you that, the healer quests instance needs you to do DPS and Heal your allies in order to complete it.

Devs said healers should try to deal damage as well instead instead of focusing in only healing.

I find the healing job the most enjoyable by far because I HAVE to balance damage and healing.

I do not think anyone is arguing against that. Right now though the parity is almost all damage and no healing. I have all of these wonderful shields, aoes, single target OCD heals, and plenty of ways to heal and mitigate damage, and well instead some people want me to shut up and spam broil almost entirely? That is atrocious game design for encounters to be that way. I want to be a healer and not a one-button DPS with 75% the DPS of a real damage dealer and all of these heals that are not even needed. The best way to rectify is to take steps that make use of those resources which would be redesigning mechanics to require more healing, weakening aoe heals and all these burst cooldowns heals and reducing self-sustain of non healers if it turns out to be too powerful in savage.

[Seku]

You're legit complaining about self-sustain in the lowest possible denominator of content...dungeons that mean absolutely nothing apart from a means to get exp or get tomes as quick as possible, period. So what if tanks can recover a healer screwing up and saving a dungeon boss, "oh the humanity!" even though Paladin has been doing this for the last four years. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

you will need to wait until normal mode raids come out, or even more preferably Savage before you can even remotely get close to a baseline average to see how tanks are actually performing, as dungeon content is no way remotely close to a means to balancing jobs.

Tanks have been able to pull through on normal mode raids too without healers in some instances. You're basically collecting tomes and gear drops from savage raids, which are then invalidated by crafting the next savage teir. With that said, I don't see your point other than the fact that dungeons are easy. Which SE could give into players asking for harder dungeons that could be meaningful content, thus changing up the meta. His on the other hand points out a larger issue in the fact that power creep is slowly starting to take over Tanks, which in some cases edges out an entire 3rd of the classes. 3dps + 1 tank runs aren't really new though, but the fact that these dungeons have probably been some of the easiest pulls in the history of the game speaks volumes.

With that said. OP MSQ dungeons are made to be solo dungeons as seen by the trusts and are a bad basis for how classes operate together. I am on the side though that healing and self-sustain should be cut down across the board and active mitigation and healing should be put back into the game. Wanting a tank to self-heal themselves in bursts without healer intervention is basically asking for a solo game further. Literally, we're just missing high DPS numbers.

With that said though, you shouldn't expect this and no amount of "not letting them off the hook" is going to change that, because the game is thriving with money. Or in short, they have their core base, and as long as that remains nothing will change as long as the general consensus doesn't. I wish you luck though on getting it to change however as I'd like to see a real MMO and not something that feels more akin to a single-player game with a co-op option.

[ElenaRedoran]

I do not think anyone is arguing against that. Right now though the parity is almost all damage and no healing. I have all of these wonderful shields, aoes, single target OCD heals, and plenty of ways to heal and mitigate damage, and well instead some people want me to shut up and spam broil almost entirely? That is atrocious game design for encounters to be that way. I want to be a healer and not a one-button DPS with 75% the DPS of a real damage dealer and all of these heals that are not even needed. The best way to rectify is to take steps that make use of those resources which would be redesigning mechanics to require more healing, weakening aoe heals and all these burst cooldowns heals and reducing self-sustain of non healers if it turns out to be too powerful in savage.

you're wrong. doing dungeons and other casual content like extremes is where you get to have fun just spamming dps buttons and using ogcds to keep your party up.
savage/ultimate is where you actually get to start using all of your tools properly without overkilling by being the type of healer that REALLY just wants to stand there spamming cure 1.

[Shironeko_Narunyan]

I do not think anyone is arguing against that. Right now though the parity is almost all damage and no healing. I have all of these wonderful shields, aoes, single target OCD heals, and plenty of ways to heal and mitigate damage, and well instead some people want me to shut up and spam broil almost entirely? That is atrocious game design for encounters to be that way. I want to be a healer and not a one-button DPS with 75% the DPS of a real damage dealer and all of these heals that are not even needed. The best way to rectify is to take steps that make use of those resources which would be redesigning mechanics to require more healing, weakening aoe heals and all these burst cooldowns heals and reducing self-sustain of non healers if it turns out to be too powerful in savage.

Having 90% healing spells used 10% of the time, but using the 10% made for damage 90% of the time is kind of weird, anyway. This isn't just a problem with tank's healing, the whole combat system needs to be looked at.

[Shironeko_Narunyan]

you're wrong. doing dungeons and other casual content like extremes is where you get to have fun just spamming dps buttons and using ogcds to keep your party up.
savage/ultimate is where you actually get to start using all of your tools properly without overkilling by being the type of healer that REALLY just wants to stand there spamming cure 1.

How can it be that you only get to play your job as it's designed to play in content made for a low percentage of players?
Everything in this game needs to follow the same rules, or you end up with situations like this, where "it's irrelevant for casuals". We're playing different games in such a case, and that's not good.

[winsock]

Yawn. Mock if you will. The fact you are left with snarky sarcasm is the defeated final stand. Yes I've said to others we can agree to disagree but if you think an entire role of the game should be thrown under the bus just to satisfy another role than no I don't think I can even accept your opinion. One role should not have it all at the expense of healers so yes I'll be pushing to have self healing removed at much as possible. Only exception should be paladin. I actually think classes should keep it's identity. Clemency can fill that spot along with cover.

The sarcasm is because you don't know what you're talking about, and clearly don't care enough to do anything other than whine, complain, and pick arguments on the Internet. we just going to ignore ARR? Warrior always had self heals. PLD had potions, cure, stoneskin, and raise, but all but the potions weren't all that usable. Clemency is the first and only effective/reliable targeted heal on a tank. It can and has replaced the healer on dungeon boss fights since it's existence.



Why you cry of self healing, but not targeted healing is beyond me. That's why I say we can agree to disagree. You are complaining about skills that don't replace healers arguing that they replace healers, and it conflicts with tank identity... But then you are okay with a skill like clemency that actually has replaced healers, because of the tank's identity. We are too far apart to agree.

[Ashua]

you're wrong. doing dungeons and other casual content like extremes is where you get to have fun just spamming "one" dps button and the "tanks" ogcds to keep your party up.
savage/ultimate is where you actually get to start using all of your tools properly without overkilling by being the type of healer that REALLY just wants to stand there spamming cure 1.

Sorry. Just threw in a bit of correlation into your statement. Right now extreme is the high end of the game and thus my point remains valid. Content that is easily one healer healed with the lesser end of this raid tier level and still manages to only require about 5% of the entire event doing what our role is supposed to be is atrocious. Can you not see that? Probably not at this point. Sorry but I am a healer. I heal primarily and add a bit of damage afterward. It's not even remotely balanced. It is literally 5% of every freaking fight and then it's just one button. Honestly at this stage even applying the dot isn't much extra incentive.

The sarcasm is because you don't know what you're talking about, and clearly don't care enough to do anything other than whine, complain, and pick arguments on the Internet. we just going to ignore ARR? Warrior always had self heals. PLD had potions, cure, stoneskin, and raise, but all but the potions weren't all that usable. Clemency is the first and only effective/reliable targeted heal on a tank. It can and has replaced the healer on dungeon boss fights since it's existence.


Why you cry of self healing, but not targeted healing is beyond me. That's why I say we can agree to disagree. You are complaining about skills that don't replace healers arguing that they replace healers, and it conflicts with tank identity... But then you are okay with a skill like clemency that actually has replaced healers, because of the tank's identity. We are too far apart to agree.

Then we can agree that self-healing is too powerful. You are right that warrior self-healing is in the extreme case right now. And lol at the use of potions, cure, and stoneskin. The paladin once upon a time had to actually continue to weave his abilities to hold aggro before holding aggro became a non-issue. On tank swaps, in Bahamut coils, a paladin could meaningfully help and that was not an issue because I was still having to heal more than spam my damage. I want to HEAL. It is not that difficult of a concept to grasp. If I had to spend more time healing over dealing damage I would have less to as wrongfully misinterpret as whining. Why is it when someone wants to actually play a class they decided to main as whining because another role invalidates it? If I am having to do my job "healing" for even half the time that would be more satisfying but it's not. It's apparent you wish to tiptoe around the issue in order to keep the power of your role and that is fine since it is your opinion. But to try to discredit me by stating I am whining when I give my views on the balance issues which are actual issues. When a healer's role is not really its true role anymore it is an issue. Simply put. It defies logic as to why every tank (minus Drk) has the capacity to even invalidate healers healing even more with aoe shields/ability reductions is beyond me. We are barely making use of our heals as it is. Boggle at SE for thinking that healers are so overwhelmed at our one-button damage that they have to equip tanks with the utility to help make healing even easier??

[NyneSwordz]

Yeah no. Stop complaining. Game is barely out and already complaining complaining and more complaining. Don't play if you hate the game so much.