New summoner is unacceptable

[rewd]

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but hasn't FF Summoners always felt like an Elememtalist but with Summons? You called upon Shiva for ice, Ifrit for fire, etc. Obviously an MMO can't just have a job where you Summon pets and let them do literally everything, so when new Summoner summons the elementals they bestow upon us some of their power for our spells. To the best of my knowledge Summoner has never had damage over time spells in their toolkits, and those DoTs I hated because it never felt like I was really playing a Summoner. If y'all want DoTs, ask them to introduce Green Mage or something.

The fact that the rotation is way easier is just icing on the cake. Many DPS jobs feel like they're only getting more complex these days, and I welcome not having to default to Red Mage if I want to play a job that doesn't require planning everything out ten abilities in advance based upon whatever the boss is doing.

Your comment is overall wrong.

Summoners don't feel like elementalist, first of all because summons are something you don't spam (unlike new SMN). Secondly, because summoners have their own capabilities outside of summons. Yuna and Garnet are specialized in white magic for example, Rydia (the first "true" FF summoner) in black magic instead, and as such she could use damage over time spells.

Lastly, DPS jobs are objectively getting easier.

[Shougun]

Your comment is overall wrong.

Summoners don't feel like elementalist, first of all because summons are something you don't spam (unlike new SMN). Secondly, because summoners have their own capabilities outside of summons. Yuna and Garnet are specialized in white magic for example, Rydia (the first "true" FF summoner) in black magic instead, and as such she could use damage over time spells.

Lastly, DPS jobs are objectively getting easier.

I wouldn't put much stock in the summoner had other mechanics concept though. Summoner has been paired with all jobs, no jobs, black mage, white mage, pure summoner (yes there have been "I only summon summoners"), etc.

The only important part of all of that is that it summons cool things, otherwise the mechanics have literally been all over the place. Including both pet and not pet like concepts.

I mean people can have a favorite variations of summoner (classic is more one off, meanwhile recent summons are generally more pet based). But to say summoner needs DoTs or need black magic, or whatever else, I think is pretty much, nay not pretty much is actually, proven untrue by FF itself. Summoner / summons have been associated with everything, with the only consistent element being they're pretty, and pretty freaking cool. lol.

I’m currently at level 89 and from the dungeons etc I’ve done as Summoner I found it way more fun than it was before. And I genuinely enjoyed DoT Summoner too. But personally I feel like this one feels closer to a ‘traditional ff style summoner’ than the ‘ffxiv unique edition summoner’ we had before.

If I had one criticism I would like it if they separated Summon Bahamut/Phoenix. I know everyone hates the idea of extra buttons, but because you can’t control when you summon Phoenix, the really useful healing effects from Everlasting Flight and Rekindle end up getting wasted, and then when you desperately need them you’re stuck with Bahamut lol. The conditions to summon them are fine, it’s just being locked into one or the other that’s the problem, especially when they both function quite differently (one is more focused on big aoe attacks, one is focused more on passive healing / regens)

May I suggest that if they do that then they ensure the damage of the two is similar, at least on single target (for boss reasons), but that each one provides a different QoL. Phoenix may be healing, then maybe Bahamut is CC / mp regen? Not sure. I just really feel if you did that then people are going to basically say goodbye to one of the summons for the vast majority of situations. Maybe if they added an extra layer of support to phoenix so it was even better in "oh lord" situations? Like if you use phoenix your revive becomes instant cast, free, and heals them after being revived?

Though some people have commented they wish phoenix was better damage anyways, certainly if the rotation is forced as it is currently it might be nice to have phoenix just be an improvement (though that does take away from Bahamut's grand legacy). I'm not sure... I just hear an alarm bell at adding freedom on that without some mechanic. Like if you let people choose and make no changes otherwise it'll be Paladin's clemency except maybe slightly worse since it's a HoT and one decent cure, meanwhile if Paladin had to clemency they'd at least get to spam it out and really help the team (which is why one of my suggestions is to boost the support a lot if it is to be relegated to the clemency life).

[Darksummoner]

Your comment is overall wrong.

Summoners don't feel like elementalist, first of all because summons are something you don't spam (unlike new SMN). Secondly, because summoners have their own capabilities outside of summons. Yuna and Garnet are specialized in white magic for example, Rydia (the first "true" FF summoner) in black magic instead, and as such she could use damage over time spells.

Lastly, DPS jobs are objectively getting easier.

I hate when people want a class to be complicated or hard to play. That shit reminds me of the garbage from WoW. Where EVERYONE whined when a class got a redesign. NOT EVERY class (job) needs to be all complicated and difficult to play. And where is the rule book that says a summon needs to be a long cast to call something forth ?? I'm sorry. But I don't want jobs to be shitty and unfun and boring like WoW classes. FFXIV has fun jobs, I would like for them to stay that way.

[Rolder50]

I hate when people want a class to be complicated or hard to play. That shit reminds me of the garbage from WoW. Where EVERYONE whined when a class got a redesign. NOT EVERY class (job) needs to be all complicated and difficult to play. And where is the rule book that says a summon needs to be a long cast to call something forth ?? I'm sorry. But I don't want jobs to be shitty and unfun and boring like WoW classes. FFXIV has fun jobs, I would like for them to stay that way.

Sure not every class needs to be complex. But it still stings to have one of the few that WAS complex be dumbed down to possibly the simplest in the game. Just like not every class needs to be complex, not every class needs to be simple and easy. And yet FF14 has been trending to making ALL of them simple and easy.

[Riusvell]

Sure not every class needs to be complex. But it still stings to have one of the few that WAS complex be dumbed down to possibly the simplest in the game. Just like not every class needs to be complex, not every class needs to be simple and easy. And yet FF14 has been trending to making ALL of them simple and easy.

Sad part is at least the simple and complete classes offer more feedback regarding Gameplay than this mess.
The fact that the former "simple" and "newbie friendly" caster class somehow has gotten more complex and actually offers good feedback in terms of it's gameplay... compared to this ""successful rework"" that just offers no signal if you're even doing something well... Yeah, no. That ain't right.

You're just carelessly flinging around spells and if you make it have healing potencies, you basically have a healer.
Like you can just ignore all your gemstones and go straight to the Demi after spamming ruin 3, like for real? You legit can't mess up any mechanic that the job possesses because it has absolutely no mechanics.
I ain't asking for much, I'm asking for a job to be complete and it's gameplay to actually convey that you're doing something right.
The bold part being VERY important.

Though I feel like I'm talking to a wall because many people harp on the fact "OH BUT NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE COMPLEX" or this "BUT IT ISN'T WOW WARLOCK ANYMORE". Guys, people have legitimately expressed how or why it's really not a good rework and it's not because of those reasons that keep being repeated. Also, if we bring in the excuse X did it first, then nothing should be allowed to be created as almost every possibility has been used in games already.

[Miles064]

Sure not every class needs to be complex. But it still stings to have one of the few that WAS complex be dumbed down to possibly the simplest in the game. Just like not every class needs to be complex, not every class needs to be simple and easy. And yet FF14 has been trending to making ALL of them simple and easy.

Been thinking this for a while now but, this is one of the things WoW style talent rows(not the old trees) is supposed to address. For mage, Incanter's flow was a passive that went from 5% dmg buff scaling up to 20% then scaling back down to 5%. You had no control over it so you could mostly ignore it. You could try to line up cds at the 20% but it ended up evening out anyway. rune of power on the other hand had a huge 40% spell dmg buff but you had to cast it, stand in it, and it only lasted like 8 seconds or something. Rune was the better dps option if you could handle it but flow was still solid as an easier option. Mirror image sucked though so hopefully SE can avoid stuff like that.