New summoner is unacceptable

[Memoranda]

I have only run dungeons with SMN so I can't say I notice much about single target but it certainly seems to me that AOE is incredible. Packs of mobs are melting down faster than I remember before Endwalker.

Aye, because new Summoner simply has a lot of AoE spells now. All of our Summons now have AoE, we have enhanced Tri-disaster AoE... it is pretty nuts. I'm more or less afraid of new SMN only being an AoE-bot now. It feels like its single target is meh, and if its actually lagging behind why bring SMN when RDM and BLM exist? Undoubtedly we're just going to have to wait for the dust to settle to see what's what, but wanted to know if anyone else had any opinions on the matter.

[Vibronix]

I like new summoner. My main complaint is you barely spend any time casting abilities, it feels much more like a bard than a magic user. Only other complaint is I feel you cycle between summons much too quickly, that it's hard to feel like you're really experiencing the power of Garuda or ifrit or titan and the unique ways each plays for too long compared to bahamut and Phoenix.

Otherwise loving it, though I'm only 87

[Kandraxx]

How is this even still a summoner, I feel like the elemental theme is too dominant now. Feels like I’m playing a shaman in WoW, blasting elemental spells and the pet is basically only flavor.

[Ayer2015]

How is this even still a summoner, I feel like the elemental theme is too dominant now. Feels like I’m playing a shaman in WoW, blasting elemental spells and the pet is basically only flavor.

Feels more like a SMN now than it ever has prior.

[Memoranda]

How is this even still a summoner, I feel like the elemental theme is too dominant now. Feels like I’m playing a shaman in WoW, blasting elemental spells and the pet is basically only flavor.

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but hasn't FF Summoners always felt like an Elememtalist but with Summons? You called upon Shiva for ice, Ifrit for fire, etc. Obviously an MMO can't just have a job where you Summon pets and let them do literally everything, so when new Summoner summons the elementals they bestow upon us some of their power for our spells. To the best of my knowledge Summoner has never had damage over time spells in their toolkits, and those DoTs I hated because it never felt like I was really playing a Summoner. If y'all want DoTs, ask them to introduce Green Mage or something.

The fact that the rotation is way easier is just icing on the cake. Many DPS jobs feel like they're only getting more complex these days, and I welcome not having to default to Red Mage if I want to play a job that doesn't require planning everything out ten abilities in advance based upon whatever the boss is doing.

[rewd]

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but hasn't FF Summoners always felt like an Elememtalist but with Summons? You called upon Shiva for ice, Ifrit for fire, etc. Obviously an MMO can't just have a job where you Summon pets and let them do literally everything, so when new Summoner summons the elementals they bestow upon us some of their power for our spells. To the best of my knowledge Summoner has never had damage over time spells in their toolkits, and those DoTs I hated because it never felt like I was really playing a Summoner. If y'all want DoTs, ask them to introduce Green Mage or something.

The fact that the rotation is way easier is just icing on the cake. Many DPS jobs feel like they're only getting more complex these days, and I welcome not having to default to Red Mage if I want to play a job that doesn't require planning everything out ten abilities in advance based upon whatever the boss is doing.

Your comment is overall wrong.

Summoners don't feel like elementalist, first of all because summons are something you don't spam (unlike new SMN). Secondly, because summoners have their own capabilities outside of summons. Yuna and Garnet are specialized in white magic for example, Rydia (the first "true" FF summoner) in black magic instead, and as such she could use damage over time spells.

Lastly, DPS jobs are objectively getting easier.

[Shougun]

Your comment is overall wrong.

Summoners don't feel like elementalist, first of all because summons are something you don't spam (unlike new SMN). Secondly, because summoners have their own capabilities outside of summons. Yuna and Garnet are specialized in white magic for example, Rydia (the first "true" FF summoner) in black magic instead, and as such she could use damage over time spells.

Lastly, DPS jobs are objectively getting easier.

I wouldn't put much stock in the summoner had other mechanics concept though. Summoner has been paired with all jobs, no jobs, black mage, white mage, pure summoner (yes there have been "I only summon summoners"), etc.

The only important part of all of that is that it summons cool things, otherwise the mechanics have literally been all over the place. Including both pet and not pet like concepts.

I mean people can have a favorite variations of summoner (classic is more one off, meanwhile recent summons are generally more pet based). But to say summoner needs DoTs or need black magic, or whatever else, I think is pretty much, nay not pretty much is actually, proven untrue by FF itself. Summoner / summons have been associated with everything, with the only consistent element being they're pretty, and pretty freaking cool. lol.

I’m currently at level 89 and from the dungeons etc I’ve done as Summoner I found it way more fun than it was before. And I genuinely enjoyed DoT Summoner too. But personally I feel like this one feels closer to a ‘traditional ff style summoner’ than the ‘ffxiv unique edition summoner’ we had before.

If I had one criticism I would like it if they separated Summon Bahamut/Phoenix. I know everyone hates the idea of extra buttons, but because you can’t control when you summon Phoenix, the really useful healing effects from Everlasting Flight and Rekindle end up getting wasted, and then when you desperately need them you’re stuck with Bahamut lol. The conditions to summon them are fine, it’s just being locked into one or the other that’s the problem, especially when they both function quite differently (one is more focused on big aoe attacks, one is focused more on passive healing / regens)

May I suggest that if they do that then they ensure the damage of the two is similar, at least on single target (for boss reasons), but that each one provides a different QoL. Phoenix may be healing, then maybe Bahamut is CC / mp regen? Not sure. I just really feel if you did that then people are going to basically say goodbye to one of the summons for the vast majority of situations. Maybe if they added an extra layer of support to phoenix so it was even better in "oh lord" situations? Like if you use phoenix your revive becomes instant cast, free, and heals them after being revived?

Though some people have commented they wish phoenix was better damage anyways, certainly if the rotation is forced as it is currently it might be nice to have phoenix just be an improvement (though that does take away from Bahamut's grand legacy). I'm not sure... I just hear an alarm bell at adding freedom on that without some mechanic. Like if you let people choose and make no changes otherwise it'll be Paladin's clemency except maybe slightly worse since it's a HoT and one decent cure, meanwhile if Paladin had to clemency they'd at least get to spam it out and really help the team (which is why one of my suggestions is to boost the support a lot if it is to be relegated to the clemency life).

[Darksummoner]

Your comment is overall wrong.

Summoners don't feel like elementalist, first of all because summons are something you don't spam (unlike new SMN). Secondly, because summoners have their own capabilities outside of summons. Yuna and Garnet are specialized in white magic for example, Rydia (the first "true" FF summoner) in black magic instead, and as such she could use damage over time spells.

Lastly, DPS jobs are objectively getting easier.

I hate when people want a class to be complicated or hard to play. That shit reminds me of the garbage from WoW. Where EVERYONE whined when a class got a redesign. NOT EVERY class (job) needs to be all complicated and difficult to play. And where is the rule book that says a summon needs to be a long cast to call something forth ?? I'm sorry. But I don't want jobs to be shitty and unfun and boring like WoW classes. FFXIV has fun jobs, I would like for them to stay that way.

[Rolder50]

I hate when people want a class to be complicated or hard to play. That shit reminds me of the garbage from WoW. Where EVERYONE whined when a class got a redesign. NOT EVERY class (job) needs to be all complicated and difficult to play. And where is the rule book that says a summon needs to be a long cast to call something forth ?? I'm sorry. But I don't want jobs to be shitty and unfun and boring like WoW classes. FFXIV has fun jobs, I would like for them to stay that way.

Sure not every class needs to be complex. But it still stings to have one of the few that WAS complex be dumbed down to possibly the simplest in the game. Just like not every class needs to be complex, not every class needs to be simple and easy. And yet FF14 has been trending to making ALL of them simple and easy.

[Chocobits]

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but hasn't FF Summoners always felt like an Elememtalist but with Summons? You called upon Shiva for ice, Ifrit for fire, etc. Obviously an MMO can't just have a job where you Summon pets and let them do literally everything, so when new Summoner summons the elementals they bestow upon us some of their power for our spells. To the best of my knowledge Summoner has never had damage over time spells in their toolkits, and those DoTs I hated because it never felt like I was really playing a Summoner. If y'all want DoTs, ask them to introduce Green Mage or something.

The fact that the rotation is way easier is just icing on the cake. Many DPS jobs feel like they're only getting more complex these days, and I welcome not having to default to Red Mage if I want to play a job that doesn't require planning everything out ten abilities in advance based upon whatever the boss is doing.

Final Fantasy XI would like a word with you. When you summon avatars, you can use them to heal the party, cast buffs, enfeebles, and attack enemies with strong physical or magical damage. Ramuh can stun all enemies in range. Garuda can cast large party heals. Ifrit grants attack boosts. Diabolos grants an AOE MP restore over time. So yeah, FFXI summoner is the best iteration of summoner the franchise has ever had, with the summoner controlling the avatar's actions and the avatar dealing all of the damage.