New summoner is unacceptable

[Rolder50]

Maybe just maybe it is time to read the room a little bit and see how the statement above is in direct contrast to the generally accepted reality.

Hello, room here, I agree with zcrash. That is all.

[Komarimono]

Hello, room here, I agree with zcrash. That is all.

I agree with Aveyond, so.... Ya... Kinda proves the point, adapt or not, doesn't matter. If it was underperforming, I could see a complaint possibly. As for now, works just fine.

[Dyvid]

Maybe just maybe it is time to read the room a little bit and see how the statement above is in direct contrast to the generally accepted reality. The echo chamber that some have formed around themselves is a truly laughable state of affairs, and then they wonder why no one takes their ideas seriously.

5.0 summoner was my first 80. Anyone else who played that mess knows why it needed to be axed. What we have now is better. For every complainer that shows up here to moan about "my complexity is ruined!" there are exponentially more people who are just chilling and enjoying new summoner. As a funny note, many of the individuals who have done so have already told me multiple times that likes and dislikes mean nothing to them, so if all the praise and likes that new summoner got is meaningless, then so are the likes they give each other on their posts complaining about new summoner.

Curious, what level is your SMN now? What your thought? You seem to attacks others but I haven't yet to see your view points on the current design other than OMG 5UMM0N5!

[zcrash970]

Maybe just maybe it is time to read the room a little bit and see how the statement above is in direct contrast to the generally accepted reality. The echo chamber that some have formed around themselves is a truly laughable state of affairs, and then they wonder why no one takes their ideas seriously.

5.0 summoner was my first 80. Anyone else who played that mess knows why it needed to be axed. What we have now is better. For every complainer that shows up here to moan about "my complexity is ruined!" there are exponentially more people who are just chilling and enjoying new summoner. As a funny note, many of the individuals who have done so have already told me multiple times that likes and dislikes mean nothing to them, so if all the praise and likes that new summoner got is meaningless, then so are the likes they give each other on their posts complaining about new summoner.

As I posted in other thread this job is literally riddled with problems. Unlike most of the fanboys in this sub, I don't freak out when yoshi put something shiny and new in front of me. I look at objectively. And this job is just not a good redesign, the only that really changed is the theme of the job.
Most of the problems that SMN had followed into this rework, if not, made worse. The only thing they improved was demis now stay in place.

1. Bahamut/phoenix cd is based on on spell speed and not a strict 60cd. This allows both to drift out of 60sec and 120 buff windows that a party will provide

2. This even applies to our own buff, Searing Light. We will have to delay bahamut or delay the CD or we are waiting on both.


3. This points out the fault of carby. It hinders us severally. After every summon it returns to us so we need to position it every time we want to use searing light. Which can potentially delay our cd because carby is slow. As well depending on what summon you are using can be hetic to place carby

4. Phoenix is a dps loss for flavor and utility you cannot use when you need to

5. Ifrit design is weak for no reason and should technically be the strongest since we have to get it into melee range and two long casts. We are going to have to reserve swiftcast for this.

6. Summon animations can obscure visual mechanics.

7. Ruin 4 is very awkward and easily forgettable. It serves no point in our rotation outside of a pointless extra mobility option.

8. We have a ton of instant cast but nothing to fill the gap with. You get two festers that are immediately burned off in bahamut/phoenix

I don't know what I did but it took 2 gcds to get Carby to use Searing Light

I can go on further about the leveling process and gameplay of the class if needed but I wanted to keep it focused on lvl90 issues. This is also precursory because I haven't really done my own math

Let's talk about the failure in design...
This job can literally be broken down into 11 buttons for st or aoe that you will be using regularly most of which are minute long CDs.

Ruin3/ Tri Disaster
Gem shine/gem brilliance
Astral Flow
Energy Drain /Energy siphon
Ruin 4
Fester/Painflare
Searing light
Summon 1
Summon 2
Summon3
Summon bahamut/phoenix
Enkindle

7 spells once a minute
1 ability that use 2 twice a minute at the beginning of each minute.
1 2 minute ability that can't even match up with your own burst because of a stupid cd.

You barely use ruin 3 outside so ultimately you are just smashing either your single target or aoe gem spell with occasional astral flow. HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE CLAIM THAT OLD SMN IS NOTHING MORE THAN SPAMMING RUIN 3 WHILE SAYING THAT THIS ONE IS DIFFERENT!?
It's arguably more spammy because at least with the other versions of smn I could use dots, egi assaults, and ruin 4.

Where's the optimization that you guy thought it would have? If there's something more I would to know because at the current moment, there is close to none. SMN was know for it's obscene amount of DPS it could pull off where there were multiple targets. That's gone. Holding ruin4 stacks for movement or to burst. Gone. Storm blood smn you had to think if you needed to rush to bahamut if you needed to burst Or if you wanted to blow your mp pool on ruin 4.

Leveling process is probably one of the worst in the game because the one skill that actually makes the class anywhere near interesting to play is locked until level 86.

Speaking of traits...why is literally everything a direct upgrade to each other. I could never survive the level 1 to 90 at this point. You will be so starved any change in gameplay while leveling.

You literally lose dps when you hit level 80. How is that a thing!? It's so bad that it goes disbelief and funny to straight annoyance and anger.

You can't even delay to use phoenix because you would lose even more DPS.

Oh one of the main benefits to bring a smn is swiftcast raise. But we actively get punished if you don't use it for a ruby rite

How can you pet delay or ghost actions!? It only literally does two things and it can't even do that right!



You are still spamming one button. Pets can still ghost action. Rotation is still stagnant. Aetherflow is even more out of place. Do I need to continue or will you people stop defending the dev team for making horrid decisions in their classes?



Just had to vent on this because some of you are literally entranced by the new paint of this job but you can't see that it is maggot infested

[Laphicet]

As I posted in other thread this job is literally riddled with problems. Unlike most of the fanboys in this sub, I don't freak out when yoshi put something shiny and new in front of me. I look at objectively. And this job is just not a good redesign, the only that really changed is the theme of the job.
Most of the problems that SMN had followed into this rework, if not, made worse. The only thing they improved was demis now stay in place.

1. Bahamut/phoenix cd is based on on spell speed and not a strict 60cd. This allows both to drift out of 60sec and 120 buff windows that a party will provide

2. This even applies to our own buff, Searing Light. We will have to delay bahamut or delay the CD or we are waiting on both.


3. This points out the fault of carby. It hinders us severally. After every summon it returns to us so we need to position it every time we want to use searing light. Which can potentially delay our cd because carby is slow. As well depending on what summon you are using can be hetic to place carby

4. Phoenix is a dps loss for flavor and utility you cannot use when you need to

5. Ifrit design is weak for no reason and should technically be the strongest since we have to get it into melee range and two long casts. We are going to have to reserve swiftcast for this.

6. Summon animations can obscure visual mechanics.

7. Ruin 4 is very awkward and easily forgettable. It serves no point in our rotation outside of a pointless extra mobility option.

8. We have a ton of instant cast but nothing to fill the gap with. You get two festers that are immediately burned off in bahamut/phoenix

I don't know what I did but it took 2 gcds to get Carby to use Searing Light

I can go on further about the leveling process and gameplay of the class if needed but I wanted to keep it focused on lvl90 issues. This is also precursory because I haven't really done my own math

Let's talk about the failure in design...
This job can literally be broken down into 11 buttons for st or aoe that you will be using regularly most of which are minute long CDs.

Ruin3/ Tri Disaster
Gem shine/gem brilliance
Astral Flow
Energy Drain /Energy siphon
Ruin 4
Fester/Painflare
Searing light
Summon 1
Summon 2
Summon3
Summon bahamut/phoenix
Enkindle

7 spells once a minute
1 ability that use 2 twice a minute at the beginning of each minute.
1 2 minute ability that can't even match up with your own burst because of a stupid cd.

You barely use ruin 3 outside so ultimately you are just smashing either your single target or aoe gem spell with occasional astral flow. HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE CLAIM THAT OLD SMN IS NOTHING MORE THAN SPAMMING RUIN 3 WHILE SAYING THAT THIS ONE IS DIFFERENT!?
It's arguably more spammy because at least with the other versions of smn I could use dots, egi assaults, and ruin 4.

Where's the optimization that you guy thought it would have? If there's something more I would to know because at the current moment, there is close to none. SMN was know for it's obscene amount of DPS it could pull off where there were multiple targets. That's gone. Holding ruin4 stacks for movement or to burst. Gone. Storm blood smn you had to think if you needed to rush to bahamut if you needed to burst Or if you wanted to blow your mp pool on ruin 4.

Leveling process is probably one of the worst in the game because the one skill that actually makes the class anywhere near interesting to play is locked until level 86.

Speaking of traits...why is literally everything a direct upgrade to each other. I could never survive the level 1 to 90 at this point. You will be so starved any change in gameplay while leveling.

You literally lose dps when you hit level 80. How is that a thing!? It's so bad that it goes disbelief and funny to straight annoyance and anger.

You can't even delay to use phoenix because you would lose even more DPS.

Oh one of the main benefits to bring a smn is swiftcast raise. But we actively get punished if you don't use it for a ruby rite

How can you pet delay or ghost actions!? It only literally does two things and it can't even do that right!



You are still spamming one button. Pets can still ghost action. Rotation is still stagnant. Aetherflow is even more out of place. Do I need to continue or will you people stop defending the dev team for making horrid decisions in their classes?



Just had to vent on this because some of you are literally entranced by the new paint of this job but you can't see that it is maggot infested

This post says it better than I ever could have. People are far too entranced by the pretty colors and the shiny lights, but when you take that all away you're left with a class on par with a healer when it comes to 1spam and a class that's more button-bloated than any other class on record. All the pretty colors and effects vomit in the world can't hide that forever.

[Masocheese]

1. Bahamut/phoenix cd is based on on spell speed and not a strict 60cd. This allows both to drift out of 60sec and 120 buff windows that a party will provide

2. This even applies to our own buff, Searing Light. We will have to delay bahamut or delay the CD or we are waiting on both.


3. This points out the fault of carby. It hinders us severally. After every summon it returns to us so we need to position it every time we want to use searing light. Which can potentially delay our cd because carby is slow. As well depending on what summon you are using can be hetic to place carby

4. Phoenix is a dps loss for flavor and utility you cannot use when you need to

5. Ifrit design is weak for no reason and should technically be the strongest since we have to get it into melee range and two long casts. We are going to have to reserve swiftcast for this.

7. Ruin 4 is very awkward and easily forgettable. It serves no point in our rotation outside of a pointless extra mobility option.

8. We have a ton of instant cast but nothing to fill the gap with. You get two festers that are immediately burned off in bahamut/phoenix

I think you just summerized everything I feel like is wrong with the class, simplicity isn't a bad thing and summoner definitely needed some changes. But these changes feel just rather weird in some points and I really wish they'd mix Aetherflow up just a little bit just to make it feel important again beyond "mash the button when it comes off CD". Ruin IV not feeling important is just a side effect of you basically never having to cast ruin III, maybe make aetherflow CD reduce by using the gemshine casts of ifrit/titan/garuda or something?

[Shougun]

Honestly I don't know why other than "SE reasons" they couldn't have include the other 3 primals in the mix. DWT = Umbral Summons (Titan, Leviathan, Ramuh) and FWT = Astral Summons (Ifrit, Shiva, Garuda). Each summon could have added a Elemental debuff increasing the power of the next summon in the rotation.

Nor do I understand why the felt the need to basically delete pets all together. You could have had, say Summon Garuda II, then when she leaves instead of carbuncle you have Garuda Egi on Sic auto attack until the next summon is cast.

As for DoTs, don't tell me when you run a dungeon you don't miss placing DoTs on a whole pack as the tank drives them down the field.

Ah I was thinking more keeping our current setup, but I am all for big picture ideas. I like your idea for getting all the egi to fit. A lot of work, but SMN is always expensive... Look at all the 3 minute cutscenes they make normally.

As you might remember I am not opposed to dots, I just think primal primal primal lol. Pets, no pets, or mixed. Dots, not dots, I love reading ideas about how a SMN might be made. I find reading the different concepts fun. Just give me primals, and once you have done that. Give me more primals. Lol.

Of course people's opinions are valuable and I don't relish if people feel loss. Hopefully I haven't come off that way.

[dinnertime]

From what I see, the people who actually like the new SMN have the same opinion where they love the job fantasy and aesthetic.

Meanwhile the people who don't like it, actually see the issues because they care about the job at a more technical standpoint.

I'm not very surprised the divide here. It's been around since SMN's inception basically, but I have to agree with the disagreers on this one.

I love how the job *looks* and it's what I've been asking for in years, but it really is lacking a LOT gameplay-wise.
Basically Ruin Mage in 5 different shades. Insta-cast galore with barely anything to weave in-between them along with some other issues. It's extremely basic.

[zcrash970]

From what I see, the people who actually like the new SMN have the same opinion where they love the job fantasy and aesthetic.

Meanwhile the people who don't like it, actually see the issues because they care about the job at a more technical standpoint.

I'm not very surprised the divide here. It's been around since SMN's inception basically, but I have to agree with the disagreers on this one.

I love how the job *looks* and it's what I've been asking for in years, but it really is lacking a LOT gameplay-wise.
Basically Ruin Mage in 5 different shades. Insta-cast galore with barely anything to weave in-between them along with some other issues. It's extremely basic.

This right here. People that actually played smn at a high level and/or stick with it through all the rough patches can see how this is a mess from technical standpoint. It is so bad.

SE reworks are usually bad but this takes the cake and then some. When DRK and MCH received their rework it was met with caution but people started see why some changes were made. Mch battery gauge was a great change to turrets operated and overheat, while a boring changed, did give the class some actual flow.

But this rework of smn didn't fix anything. They just slapped a new coat of paint on it and called it a day. I just now have the powers of a rainbow

[Skiros]

This right here. People that actually played smn at a high level and/or stick with it through all the rough patches can see how this is a mess from technical standpoint. It is so bad.

SE reworks are usually bad but this takes the cake and then some. When DRK and MCH received their rework it was met with caution but people started see why some changes were made. Mch battery gauge was a great change to turrets operated and overheat, while a boring changed, did give the class some actual flow.

But this rework of smn didn't fix anything. They just slapped a new coat of paint on it and called it a day. I just now have the powers of a rainbow

Exactly. It's not an either-or situation. You can design a job that is both accessible at a basic level, require thought at a high level, and have awesome animations. Square Enix doesn't seem to know how to do all three.