What makes RDM an easy DPS?

[ItMe]

Yup. Back when it crossed cure over, it needed to be Mind, but when Clemency was made into a main PLD thing it started scaling off of STR. Summoner is actually the oddball in having its cure's (physick's) potency *not* rely on its main stat.

I had no idea.
Thanks for the info ; )

[SaberMaxwell]

I had no idea.
Thanks for the info ; )

Of course! Sorry for being a bit abrasive, long day at work but that's no excuse.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

What I'd like to see happen is for Verfire and Verstone replace Jolt when their respective procs trigger. It would eliminate two buttons from the action bar and reduce the required finger gymnastics. It's how I currently play RDM via macros. Yea yea, I hear all the "macros shouldn't be used for dps" comments already, but I'm old, my hands don't work so well, and it makes RDM comfortable for me to play. I also manage to perform adequately with it.

Right now I basically have my primary action bar set up with Veraero in #1, a macro that combines Jolt, Verstone, & Verfire in #2, and Verthunder in #3. This basically let's me cast Jolt/Verstone/Verfire with one button and bounce between that and Veraero/Verthunder with only 3 buttons. My macro also has the off cooldowns so I use them as soon as they are available

/macroicon "Jolt"
/merror off
/ft
/ac "Fleche" <t>
/ac "Contre Sixte" <t>
/ac "Verstone" <t>
/ac "Verfire" <t>
/ac "Jolt" <t>

It may not be "optimal" but it sure feels a lot better to play with the macro than without due to my age and hand issues. I don't have to be a 20-something concert pianist to perform well enough that I'm not a burden to my party.


Here's my action bar setup:


You'll notice I have a non-macroed Jolt, Verfire and Verstone on my bar as well. The non-macroed Jolt is there for Scorch since putting /ac "Scorch" <t> at the top of the macro doesn't work. I have Verfire/Verstone on the bar so I can see the procs, and if necessary, use the manual buttons, but 90% of the time the macro works well enough for me. I keep the OCD abilities on my bar for occasions where I need to hit them manually as well. I'd also love to see the melee combo sans Displacement (so I can choose between Displacement or Engagement as needed) combined into a single button like pvp.

[SaberMaxwell]

What I'd like to see happen is for Verfire and Verstone replace Jolt when their respective procs trigger.

How would this work when Verfire and Verstone are both procced? Which takes precedence? Why? There are several situations where one might need to take manual control over the spellcasting at that point that having the procs replace Jolt 2 would be an active hindrance.

It would eliminate two buttons from the action bar and reduce the required finger gymnastics.

Two buttons that really don't need to be eliminated from the bar.

It's how I currently play RDM via macros. Yea yea, I hear all the "macros shouldn't be used for dps" comments already, but I'm old, my hands don't work so well, and it makes RDM comfortable for me to play. I also manage to perform adequately with it.

I can't fault you for playing how you're comfortable. You might consider switching to a controller-based set-up, maybe that would help; my own fingers don't need to move much at all to access virtually every button I need on RDM.

Right now I basically have my primary action bar set up with Veraero in #1, a macro that combines Jolt, Verstone, & Verfire in #2, and Verthunder in #3. This basically let's me cast Jolt/Verstone/Verfire with one button and bounce between that and Veraero/Verthunder with only 3 buttons. My macro also has the off cooldowns so I use them as soon as they are available

The issue here is one of double-weaving. Again, if this is what makes it comfortable for you to play I can't really argue that point, but very frequently you'll want to fire off Fleche and Contre at the same time, or Fleche and Engagement, CaC and Contre come up together a lot in my experience as well. Slapping everything onto one button seems like a very...slapdash way of doing it, even accepting for the sake of argument that macros make things easier.

If you were to do this, why would you not instead macro verstone to veraero and verfire to verthunder? Have it set as

/macroicon "Verstone"
/merror off
/ft
/ac "Verstone" <t>
/ac "Veraero" <t>

so that the macro checks for stone, sees it's not available and instead sends out veraero? Granted, you run the obvious risks of macro use there and there's the case you'll probably hit where you dualcast verstone, but compared to what you're running it might be better, especially since per your bars you've still got Veraero and Verthunder there. Having the micon set to Verstone lets you know when the proc is available too.

Then a separate macro that tags together whatever off globals you want to have there.

It may not be "optimal" but it sure feels a lot better to play with the macro than without due to my age and hand issues. I don't have to be a 20-something concert pianist to perform well enough that I'm not a burden to my party.

Hyperbole noted. There are ways around this, though; I'm no expert in KBM on this game, but with controller at least there are several ways to comfortably map several actions to easy-to-reach buttons. The shoulder buttons act as modifiers allowing, say, the square button, to act is 4+ different actions for instance.

I'd also love to see the melee combo sans Displacement (so I can choose between Displacement or Engagement as needed) combined into a single button like pvp.

The melee combo sans displacement? Displacement is more of a flourish there...you shouldn't be saving it to use at the end of the melee combo, it should be going off whenever its cooldown ends, and when melee comboing engagement tends to be the easier button to hit for a variety of reasons.

[Izanagi_Fiaresu]

Its very self explanatory. While there are little tricks you can do to optimize it? Its a pick up and play job because the skills lead into the rotation nice.

[Rongway]

You'll notice I have a non-macroed Jolt, Verfire and Verstone on my bar as well. The non-macroed Jolt is there for Scorch since putting /ac "Scorch" <t> at the top of the macro doesn't work. I have Verfire/Verstone on the bar so I can see the procs, and if necessary, use the manual buttons, but 90% of the time the macro works well enough for me.

/ac Scorch doesn't work because the game is expecting Jolt at that time.

All due "don't macro combat actions" lectures aside, here are my recommendations if you're still going to macro all that for accessibility.

There's an appropriate order to actions in a macro so that you don't delay a GCD for an oGCD. You've put Fleche and Contre Sixte before all your spells. This is something you should always avoid, even when the macro is being used for accessibility reasons. By prioritizing Fleche and Contre Sixte, you will lose about 1 whole second every time one of them comes off cooldown just when you are about to cast a spell, and you'll lose 2 whole seconds if the other one comes off cooldown during that 1 s. oGCDs should always come at the end so that you can use them without delaying your spells. Delaying Fleche or Contre Sixte by 3.2s so that you can dualcast a spell pair will result in far fewer lost oGCDs than the GCDs lost from delaying spells 1s for your oGCDs.

The way this macro is written, if you happen to be within one Verstone cast of being white tilted and you need to cast Jolt or Verfire to avoid becoming white tilted, you're going to cast Verstone and get white tilted, which will cost you between two and four GCDs to rebalance, leaving you up to ten seconds behind your melee schedule. So do watch out for that so you can manually Verfire or Jolt in that particular case.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

How would this work when Verfire and Verstone are both procced? Which takes precedence? Why?

If I had to give a simple answer, I'd say that while one is procced, the other cannot proc so there is no conflict of one over the other.

There are several situations where one might need to take manual control over the spellcasting at that point that having the procs replace Jolt 2 would be an active hindrance.

Can you provide a few examples?

I can't fault you for playing how you're comfortable. You might consider switching to a controller-based set-up, maybe that would help; my own fingers don't need to move much at all to access virtually every button I need on RDM.


The issue here is one of double-weaving. Again, if this is what makes it comfortable for you to play I can't really argue that point, but very frequently you'll want to fire off Fleche and Contre at the same time, or Fleche and Engagement, CaC and Contre come up together a lot in my experience as well. Slapping everything onto one button seems like a very...slapdash way of doing it, even accepting for the sake of argument that macros make things easier.

It might seem "slapdash" but it works. I mash my keybind for the macro and all ocd spells go off if available, immediately followed by either verstone or verfire if procced, or jolt if not.

If you were to do this, why would you not instead macro verstone to veraero and verfire to verthunder? Have it set as

so that the macro checks for stone, sees it's not available and instead sends out veraero? Granted, you run the obvious risks of macro use there and there's the case you'll probably hit where you dualcast verstone, but compared to what you're running it might be better, especially since per your bars you've still got Veraero and Verthunder there. Having the micon set to Verstone lets you know when the proc is available too.

I actually tried that first, but it ended up feeling better to have all the cast time/fillers in a single button, and the two spells I use my dualcast on to either side. It makes for a very simple 2-1or3-2-1or3 rotation. It eliminates most cases where I'd have to even look at verstone or verfire.

Hyperbole noted. There are ways around this, though; I'm no expert in KBM on this game, but with controller at least there are several ways to comfortably map several actions to easy-to-reach buttons. The shoulder buttons act as modifiers allowing, say, the square button, to act is 4+ different actions for instance.

I've never used a controller with FFXIV and I prefer using a keyboard and mouse in general when playing MMO's.

The melee combo sans displacement? Displacement is more of a flourish there...you shouldn't be saving it to use at the end of the melee combo, it should be going off whenever its cooldown ends, and when melee comboing engagement tends to be the easier button to hit for a variety of reasons.

I've never been comfortable in melee. With RDM I do my combo, and Displacement back to range unless doing so would result in my death. In those cases I use Engagement, but I don't spend any more time in melee than I absolutely have to. I can imagine the responses to that. "Maybe you shouldn't play RDM?" Trust me I've thought that myself, but it's one of the few dps jobs I can handle (with my setup) and perform adequately. Fortunately for most other players I am a healer main, so it's rare that I am RDM in group content so no one has to be subjected to my mediocre performance.

I know I must seem like a terrible player, and for dps jobs it's probably true. To me most of the dps jobs really are an exercise in finger gymnastics. They're just too complex for me to do well with while also paying attention to fight mechanics at the same time.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

/ac Scorch doesn't work because the game is expecting Jolt at that time.

All due "don't macro combat actions" lectures aside, here are my recommendations if you're still going to macro all that for accessibility.

There's an appropriate order to actions in a macro so that you don't delay a GCD for an oGCD. You've put Fleche and Contre Sixte before all your spells. This is something you should always avoid, even when the macro is being used for accessibility reasons. By prioritizing Fleche and Contre Sixte, you will lose about 1 whole second every time one of them comes off cooldown just when you are about to cast a spell, and you'll lose 2 whole seconds if the other one comes off cooldown during that 1 s. oGCDs should always come at the end so that you can use them without delaying your spells. Delaying Fleche or Contre Sixte by 3.2s so that you can dualcast a spell pair will result in far fewer lost oGCDs than the GCDs lost from delaying spells 1s for your oGCDs.

The way this macro is written, if you happen to be within one Verstone cast of being white tilted and you need to cast Jolt or Verfire to avoid becoming white tilted, you're going to cast Verstone and get white tilted, which will cost you between two and four GCDs to rebalance, leaving you up to ten seconds behind your melee schedule. So do watch out for that so you can manually Verfire or Jolt in that particular case.

Ty for the advice. I Will explore what you've suggested!

[MilkieTea]

Can you provide a few examples?

The Redmage opener in higher end content requires you to hold one proc for a bit in order to save it for later, and use one proc as it comes up. And considering you typically will want to eventually come back to use most of your opener again when things are all off cooldown, it's not just a one-off thing. There's also times where you'll hold the proc to fix a user-error that will be able to be fixed before the proc disappears, and other examples that I can't remember because I haven't used RDM in a bit and my memory is hazy

[SaberMaxwell]

If I had to give a simple answer, I'd say that while one is procced, the other cannot proc so there is no conflict of one over the other.

Hm... the issue there is that would cause actual shifts in how a Red Mage would need to think. It would go beyond Quality of Life and into gameplay altering changes if this change were adopted.

Can you provide a few examples?

MilkieTea has this covered, thank you Milkie.

Like with Black Mage, a Red Mage's procs are themselves resources that one aims to use only when one gets the most gain out of them. For Red Mage that answer is "most of the time immediately" but it's not "always," which is part of the core of Red Mage's decisionmaking process.

It might seem "slapdash" but it works. I mash my keybind for the macro and all ocd spells go off if available, immediately followed by either verstone or verfire if procced, or jolt if not.
I actually tried that first, but it ended up feeling better to have all the cast time/fillers in a single button, and the two spells I use my dualcast on to either side. It makes for a very simple 2-1or3-2-1or3 rotation. It eliminates most cases where I'd have to even look at verstone or verfire.
I've never used a controller with FFXIV and I prefer using a keyboard and mouse in general when playing MMO's.

Well if it works for you it works. I wouldn't want a situation where I'm mashing a key desperately hoping for everything to go off: especially with physical condition considered. The mental stress of hoping everything goes off and knowing they won't without drifting the GCD really badly combined with the physical stress that could lead to an RSI.

I only made those suggestions with those thoughts in mind; if they would not work for you pay them no mind and please accept my apology for being presumptuous.

I know I must seem like a terrible player, and for dps jobs it's probably true. To me most of the dps jobs really are an exercise in finger gymnastics. They're just too complex for me to do well with while also paying attention to fight mechanics at the same time.

I wouldn't say "terrible." I'd say you're doing your best with what you have, and I have no qualms with you making the necessary changes to your control scheme so things are comfier for you. I don't understand some of your issues, but that doesn't make them less valid.

My thing is really only when those changes are asked to be made universal, like with your suggested Jolt 2 changes. I'll politely disagree that they're needed and that's all though.