Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

[Izscha]

Before: Please give more creative dungeons with some difficult mechanics.

After: OMG stop giving me this dungeon it takes too long and people can't do it.

Almost sounds like different ppl like different things ! Incredible isn't it ?
And if something really difficult comes out, this is not something you'll do with pugs anyway.

[Hanayumi]

Yeah, while I would love more variety with dungeons. Devs do have a point, a lot of people end up choosing the easiest dungeon to farm and would be more likely to bail on longer/harder dungeons. If anything they should add a dungeon or 2 to Unreal, make them more difficult or just change up the mechanics, wouldnt mind something like that.

[Kaurhz]

Almost sounds like different ppl like different things ! Incredible isn't it ?
And if something really difficult comes out, this is not something you'll do with pugs anyway.

Ohh well done. Except I don't think many people will be excited to do a dungeon which would be inconvenient when their concern is a roulette which they want to get out of quickly. That's just how it is. It'll only serve to compound the issue of people leaving or AFK'n after not getting what they want.

People have already done it with normal Steps of Faith (Not a dungeon I know) and because it was highly inconvenient with a good chance of a wipe. Same thing with Shinryu actually from my experience. Heck, people still sigh and on occasion leave when they get Aurum Vale.

Sure, it'll be a nice initial experience, as it always is, but when you just want to do your routine activities, historically people will always want the quickest and easiest.

I only need to look at the incessant whining about how some people are 'underperforming' at the game, both here and on Reddit to see why this wouldn't be a good idea.

[Izscha]

Ohh well done. Except I don't think many people will be excited to do a dungeon which would be inconvenient when their concern is a roulette which they want to get out of quickly. That's just how it is. It'll only serve to compound the issue of people leaving or AFK'n after not getting what they want.

People have already done it with normal Steps of Faith (Not a dungeon I know) and because it was highly inconvenient with a good chance of a wipe. Same thing with Shinryu actually from my experience. Heck, people still sigh and on occasion leave when they get Aurum Vale.

Some dungeons are way more boring than others no one will deny that, and some do have greater chance to fail too especially old ones.
That being said what i do read there is not that regular dungeons must change, nor the ones in the roulette, but that we get dungeons on the side that are challenging and actually worth something which is something that do not exist rn.
THey can do the regular "one way w2w easy mecanics" stuff as usual, but like making 1-2 that got a hard mode ( a real one, not that joke of putting hard out of nowhere and it doesn't change anything ) that gives correct reward.
Especially when they really did reduced the numbers of dungeons per patch over the years.
Steps of faith lmao i have vietnam like flashback just to think about this one, must be the worst trial ever.

[PaulH]

I personally miss a variety of dungeons for exp daily rou and loved the ARR dungeons and how Scholar was (gimme back leeches) but things have moved on from the gameplay that I preferred personally and I have accepted it. I don’t have any answers on how this could be addressed and balanced.

I think someone mentioned about a hard mode and easy mode of dungeons or with some different elements of exploration. To me this begs the question of the dev teams, designers etc experiment though interaction with the community. So if we had a hard/easy mode of a dungeon then try it in a patch cycle and gather the analytics over time to see if people do it and drive choices for design? I suspect they use insights anyway into gameplay and how people do content and this informs decision making but just we don’t see the data. Maybe they do this anyway? There must be a balance for the different player types.

I am a grind monkey I loved this in EQ/EQ2 and wasn’t a fan of eureka or Bozja, having to do Bozja to progress my relic irritated me personally. Now for most people this would be an idea of hell but gimme a grind fest and that different type of challenge of 24 man 2000 times and I would do it as it brings me satisfaction.

TLDR: Use data insights to drive design of content for this issue with easy/hard with the added community interaction.

[Kaurhz]

Some dungeons are way more boring than others no one will deny that, and some do have greater chance to fail too especially old ones.
That being said what i do read there is not that regular dungeons must change, nor the ones in the roulette, but that we get dungeons on the side that are challenging and actually worth something which is something that do not exist rn.
THey can do the regular "one way w2w easy mecanics" stuff as usual, but like making 1-2 that got a hard mode ( a real one, not that joke of putting hard out of nowhere and it doesn't change anything ) that gives correct reward.
Especially when they really did reduced the numbers of dungeons per patch over the years.
Steps of faith lmao i have vietnam like flashback just to think about this one, must be the worst trial ever.

Yes that's my point and they're boring for a bulk of people simply because they're inconvenient to do when your concern is just a quick in and out. If you're running content with random people then yeah there is always a risk factor for wiping and that's the issue when people only want to run it as a chore.

Now this is a fair argument, just don't lock it in the same heap as regular roulettes. But let's face it what rewards would you really put behind it, and besides development is a finite resource. Something like this if it it separate of the whole routine stuff will always come at the expense of something else. Be it outright cuts, or just cutting corners. - I'm not saying the game is perfect as is, but my argument is just simply in a lot of cases the community doesn't know what it wants half the time, or the consequences of what they ask for that matter.

Heck, if I were being frank I would rather they just reintroduce PotD, give it more rewards, including regular gear updates, and then just have the 'difficulty' scale in accordance with the number of people in it.

[Izscha]

Yes that's my point and they're boring for a bulk of people simply because they're inconvenient to do when your concern is just a quick in and out. If you're running content with random people then yeah there is always a risk factor for wiping and that's the issue when people only want to run it as a chore.

Now this is a fair argument, just don't lock it in the same heap as regular roulettes. But let's face it what rewards would you really put behind it, and besides development is a finite resource. Something like this if it it separate of the whole routine stuff will always come at the expense of something else. Be it outright cuts, or just cutting corners. - I'm not saying the game is perfect as is, but my argument is just simply in a lot of cases the community doesn't know what it wants half the time, or the consequences of what they ask for that matter.

Heck, if I were being frank I would rather they just reintroduce PotD, give it more rewards, including regular gear updates, and then just have the 'difficulty' scale in accordance with the number of people in it.

Ppl are used to dungeons and roulette being like that, and nothing in roulettes are hard stuff anyway ( The only thing that could be considered hard is the mentor roulette with extremes, but that's not the average stuff that ppl do anyway ) so if a hard version of it must come out, it will stay out of roulette for sure.
And i do agree with you on that, but that's the thing with community we're not some sort of hive minds that wants the same things all the time.
It may seems like the community do want something and the opposite at the same time, but that's just ppl wanting different stuff while being in the same community, being FF 14 players nothing more that's the only thing that do connect us at some point, but each person want their own stuff.
If it was up to me i would never waste time and ressources in housing / male viera or sh*t like that, and focus on the gameplay and make it better than it is today, same for content or mecanics.
Others wants the exact opposite and we're both FF 14 players so yeah you'll often see ppl wanting one thing, and others not wanting it.

[Commander_Justitia]

The only thing that could be considered hard is the mentor roulette with extremes, but that's not the average stuff that ppl do anyway

An extra mentor roulette just for extreme trials would be nice tbh. Maybe the ability to duo it with another mentor. Would prefer it over a long dungeon

[KizuyaKatogami]

I really am curious when they said they got rid of some expert dungeons so they could focus on the ones they did give us what they meant. Like…what was the sacrifice for? Cuz all we got were streamlined dungeons and again, reused gear. So why did we lost some expert dungeons again?

[linayar]

we get dungeons on the side

Given that we've decreased the number of dungeons over time, if they do add challenging light party content, it might have to be its own side content that would compete with deep dungeon or something like that.

Now, Yoshida seemed to have hinted at something during the media tour interviews, so we might see if he has something to announce after 6.0. That said, he had also hinted at deep dungeon for Endwalker, so it might just be that.

Either way, it would not be something that cannibalize the use of dungeons today, so it probably wouldn't be anything like Mythic+ is for WoW (as one form of endgame progression).

I really am curious when they said they got rid of some expert dungeons so they could focus on the ones they did give us what they meant. Like…what was the sacrifice for? Cuz all we got were streamlined dungeons and again, reused gear. So why did we lost some expert dungeons again?

We get new PvE content with the relic and BLU.

We also get TRUST, which might mean more effort to design a dungeon.