Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

[Nethereal]

I stated others seem to be, not I. I didn't play WoW for 17 years, most of which at a cutting edge level, to then act like I'm afraid of toxicity. If it were up to me, there'd be a challenge mode with leaderboards or mythic+ system in this game.

Your entire post is filled with fair and valid arguments so there's really not much to comment on but I do want to touch on this particular above line.
Rereading that particular section IMO it just wasn't articulated that well.
You didn't differentiate yourself from the group you were referencing in the original post and you reinforced your point with "timers" which I still don't know exactly what you're talking about.
Sorry I jumped to an assumption but with the rest of your original post it was more likely leaning to one side rather than the other.

Edit: I think the "timers" you're talking about are the ones in WoW that are used for certain content. I don't play WoW and it's definitely not something I've seen brought up particularly in this discussion but I do remember them existing.
IMO though if anyone thinks timers are what made WoW toxic they have other issues going on.

[Michieltjuhh]

Your entire post is filled with fair and valid arguments so there's really not much to comment on but I do want to touch on this particular above line.
Rereading that particular section IMO it just wasn't articulated that well.
You didn't differentiate yourself from the group you were referencing in the original post and you reinforced your point with "timers" which I still don't know exactly what you're talking about.
Sorry I jumped to an assumption but with the rest of your original post it was more likely leaning to one side rather than the other.

Edit: I think the "timers" you're talking about are the ones in WoW that are used for certain content. I don't play WoW and it's definitely not something I've seen brought up particularly in this discussion but I do remember them existing.
IMO though if anyone thinks timers are what made WoW toxic they have other issues going on.

Absolutely no problem. I ended up stumbling upon the 3000 word limit (both times now) so I had to cut it all down a bit which reading back has lead to some parts being rather vague.

I read a few posts in the thread regarding the timed dungeons WoW offers. Essentially, it gives you a short timer in which you have to succeed the dungeon in order to get the rewards. This started with a so called 'challenge mode' for dungeons, which was just the same dungeon scaled up a bit while itemlevel was scaled down, and fulfilling the requirements within a certain timer (kill all bosses and a certain amount of trash mobs) would give you some cool glamour. An example could be Aurum Vale, but higher scaling, more boss and trash abilities, the need to kill a few extra mobs at the start and a timer of 15 minutes to clear it all. Due to the nature of the challenge this lead to heavy boosting, and those that did try it themselves in pugs found that people got agitated if a mistake lead to failing the timer.

They dialed this dungeon style up to 11 in more recent expansions by adding a system called mythic+, where dungeons have infinite scaling based on the difficulty level you set them on including extra modifiers, with the same timed system being in place and there being significantly more rewards including high quality gear, making it viable endgame next to raiding. Pugging mythic+ is what many consider one of the most toxic experiences.

I'd still love either to be added to the game, since it adds to the need of doing mechanics and your role at the same time similar to Savage/Ultimate enrage timers. It also allows for them to add extra mechanics to a dungeon without altering the original version.

[Nethereal]

I ended up stumbling upon the 3000 word limit (both times now) so I had to cut it all down a bit which reading back has lead to some parts being rather vague.

Copy it all to a notepad, replace it with something inside 3000 word limit, edit your post directly after with no character limit.