Extreme over correction in ToS? New ToS is going to kill pugging

[CaptainLagbeard]

I've seen parties that are literally, mathematically unable to clear normal mode duties because multiple people joined in gear that was literally unviable in that content.

I kind of feel like doing that should fall under the category of "obstruction of play", as it is genuinely obstructing several other people's gameplay as they can't get further into the MSQ because people are blocking the trials.

[Baxcel]

So are we placing bets yet on how long till MPK gets a ban under the new ToS?

[Bellsong]

Me telling the healer to DPS and the healer answering "I only heal" is, on the other hand, a difference in playstyle. And you can't kick someone for it.

Lord knows I will though.

[CaptainLagbeard]

So are we placing bets yet on how long till MPK gets a ban under the new ToS?

Thinking about it, I kind of wonder what exactly constitutes a MPK... Because one scenario that would definitely be possible to happen is having someone lower level end up running into an AoE of a max level mob and getting one-shotted... Or if you had mobs that happen to use AoE spawning near gathering nodes, could fighting in such a situation risk getting hit by a report...

[NanaWiloh]

I feel slightly concerned about how they determine what's considered "obstructing gameplay" because I've already encountered instances of people intentionally letting themselves be killed by hunt marks to get others punished for "griefing".

Plus there was that whole fiasco with someone on AetherDC purposefully despawning the SS rank minions to anger people but the GMs somehow couldn't tell that a level 4 BLU repeatedly self-destructing on level 80 enemies wasn't a deliberate act of griefing.

No doubt needs to address amongest other matters involving Hunts.

[_Koneko_]

Lord knows I will though.

and that person will happily report you for and you will get rightfully banned

[Izscha]

Not a surprise for me, and it's clearly open to all sort of abuse but i will wait and see how it really work out in the end.
But if everything that is written is enforced, you can be sure that i would never ever help anyone else doing casual content in PF again.

[LaughingBanana]

Do people really get banned from providing advice/asking properly or is all the "Oh No, Now I'm Gonna Be Banned if I Do This or That" are just mostly imagined hypothetical scenarios?

[Jojoya]

Do people really get banned from providing advice/asking properly or is all the "Oh No, Now I'm Gonna Be Banned if I Do This or That" are just mostly imagined hypothetical scenarios?

They've been banned for doing it in the wrong fashion (such as the examples listed) but it still doesn't happen nearly as often as some want you to think.

Most of what's going on here is overreaction. Outside of the changes related to use of PF and selling clears/loot, there's really not anything new there. Harassment, purchase of houses for resell, monster player kills, griefing tactics, etc. were prohibited all along. They've made the policy examples more specific for clarity's sake because there was way too much "It's not specifically stated in the TOS so I can do what I want" going on.

People who were inclined to report stuff will continue to do it. People who were inclined to shrug stuff off will continue to shrug it off. People who delight in creating trouble and drama will continue to do it and hope that targeted players will be in the latter category instead of the former, or may choose to nitpick as the former to cause the drama and trouble.

One thing I hope that players are catching onto is the repeated use of "action may be taken against a player even if a report has not been filed". Basically it's a warning that if you make a report against another player, your own actions and behavior may come under scrutiny during the investigation. If you're found to have engaged in prohibited activity yourself, you may be the one having action taken against your account.

In other words, don't file reports just for the sake of trying to get others in trouble because that trouble may end up in your lap. Report because the other player's actions have gone beyond what is reasonable.

[Ronduwil]

1. Expressions that compel a playing style
If someone hops into a PF and plays as pure healer and you call them out on it, you can now get banned for it. This is insane, I don't want a pure healer in my party. It's not even possible to clear with a pure healer on week 1.

I doubt pure healers are even pugging week 1. They're either in trusts at that point, or they're pugging via the duty finder. This is effectively a strawman because the scenario you're complaining about doesn't even exist. We all know that this is most likely about compelling wall to wall pulling.

2. Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.
What? Now I can't kick players that join a part 3 prog party if they're still stuck on part 1? What if the person accidentally joined a part 3 party and thought it was fresh prog? Am I going to get banned for asking them if they know how to do part 2?

In what way is that an example of "unilaterally excluding someone from the game?" The fact that they just need to progress some bosses before they can join your party indicates that they're not unilaterally excluded. "No lalas or bards" is the kind of crap they're talking about. Once again, you've twisted their words to create a strawman.

3. Expressions that provoke or belittle another person, such as excessive criticism, negation/ridicule
More specifically `"It's [player name]'s fault that we wiped"`. I guess it's now illegal to point out what caused a wipe the previous pull in a prog party. Have fun progressing on mechanics like light rampant where it's extremely difficult to find out why there was a wipe without another person's pov.

The key words here are "excessive," "negation," and "ridicule." Pointing out what caused a wipe is criticism, but it isn't excessive. Just don't be a jerk, and you'll be fine. You're claiming that all criticism is banned, but that's not what they said at all. Don't mock people, and be constructive with your criticism.