Extreme over correction in ToS? New ToS is going to kill pugging

[rewd]

Kicking someone is not forcing a play style on them. It's getting away from them. Also an example that I talked out with support. This was from another thread but I think it's relevant to this conversation.

Seriously, read the ToS.

Obstructing Gameplay Using Combat
Refers to an act of obstructive behaviour such as using specific skills in an unintended manner or taking advantage of battle mechanics to interfere with the gameplay of other players.
Key Points
It is prohibited to interfere with the combat of others in the following manner:

Using actions during combat to cause other players to fall from platforms or field areas to incapacitate them.
Using and manipulating enmity-related actions in an effort to incapacitate other players or interfere with gameplay.
Gathering groups of enemies to obstruct the view of others.

A tank being petty and not doing the job they queued up for and intentionally letting people die is not "difference in playstyle" and it has its own section in the ToS.

Me telling the healer to DPS and the healer answering "I only heal" is, on the other hand, a difference in playstyle. And you can't kick someone for it.

[Xirean]

Seriously, read the ToS.



A tank being petty and not doing the job they queued up for and intentionally letting people die is not "difference in playstyle" and it has its own section in the ToS.

Me telling the healer to DPS and the healer answering "I only heal" is, on the other hand, a difference in playstyle. And you can't kick someone for it.

Hey man I'm just posting what the support guy told me. Do with that what you will.

[rewd]

Hey man I'm just posting what the support guy told me. Do with that what you will.

We have a freshly updated ToS that classifies your example as "obstructing gameplay" and states, multiple times, that you can't force anything on another player.

I guess you could report a different playstyle if something like this happens:

"Hey, we can handle big pulls, can you do them? They are also a lot of fun"
"I don't care".

But somehow I have my doubts

[Kuya420]

We have a freshly updated ToS that classifies your example as "obstructing gameplay" and states, multiple times, that you can't force anything on another player.

I guess you could report a different playstyle if something like this happens:

"Hey, we can handle big pulls, can you do them? They are also a lot of fun"
"I don't care".

But somehow I have my doubts

well the asking a healer or tank if they can do big pulls (generally more asking the healer) is more to make it so the dungeon is a clean run, if they can handle big pulls, the tank will do big pulls, if not or if they are unsure, the tank will pull small to see what the healer can handle then bigger and bigger to maybe give the healer more confidence in themselves or see what they can actually do if they are unsure of themselves, sometimes its a gear restriction, or sometimes they are distracted irl (though in the latter case, maybe they should drop queue and focus on more important things?)

[Ronduwil]

Hey man I'm just posting what the support guy told me. Do with that what you will.

You're posting what the support guy told you prior to yesterday, when they updated the ToS. That's why he's telling you to read the new ToS. Note the "we will see where this goes," in the support rep's reply. Now we've seen where it went. Keep skirting the edges of propriety at your own peril.

[Kuya420]

Seriously, read the ToS.



A tank being petty and not doing the job they queued up for and intentionally letting people die is not "difference in playstyle" and it has its own section in the ToS.

Me telling the healer to DPS and the healer answering "I only heal" is, on the other hand, a difference in playstyle. And you can't kick someone for it.

what about if its a scholar that says "my pet is my heal" and refuses to do any other healing outside their pet, which isnt even half of their healing? and is only automatic and doesnt use skills associated with the pet? ie queues as scholar but basically plays as a summoner

[Bellsong]

Me telling the healer to DPS and the healer answering "I only heal" is, on the other hand, a difference in playstyle. And you can't kick someone for it.

Lord knows I will though.

[_Koneko_]

Lord knows I will though.

and that person will happily report you for and you will get rightfully banned

[Claire_Pendragon]

Seriously, read the ToS.

Using and manipulating enmity-related actions in an effort to incapacitate other players or interfere with gameplay.

A tank being petty and not doing the job they queued up for and intentionally letting people die is not "difference in playstyle" and it has its own section in the ToS.

technically youre misunderstanding the context.
if a DPS or healer does nothing wrong, and the tanks is doing this to intentionally annoy a person, not because they are in a disagreement, then its greifing. if the other persons playstyle is the cause of the intentional enmity manipulation, then its considered "defensive actions" taken by the tank (not to everyone else obviously) which is why it becomes a grey area.

you can argue it doesnt matter, but regardless, its why the GM sees it as such. So if the case is dropped in the lap of said GM or like minded GMs, thats the end result.

Me telling the healer to DPS and the healer answering "I only heal" is, on the other hand, a difference in playstyle. And you can't kick someone for it.

Ironically, THIS is much closer to the idea of a tank queuing up just to harass people. as its intentionally taking the action, knowing ppl arent ok with it, before any interaction occurs which leads to the disagreement. Which of course, the context here, is that knowing someone would be mad with it, is the equivalent of "hoping" people wont be mad with it. and its not the same as intentionally wanting them to be mad. which is the only reason its not against the ToS.

(I expect my words to be taken out of context, or straight up strawmanned, but ill ignore such comments)