Extreme over correction in ToS? New ToS is going to kill pugging

[MPK]

No offense but people who don't raid shouldn't have an opinion on this. They don't understand the hardships in pugging and progging in a pug.

[Sqwall]

No offense but people who don't raid shouldn't have an opinion on this. They don't understand the hardships in pugging and progging in a pug.

Then you should have nothing to worry about from this filthy casual, that would like to raid....but is never given a chance to excel because of people with your general outlook.

You stick to your static....I'll stick to the PF.

[Kaurhz]

No offense but people who don't raid shouldn't have an opinion on this. They don't understand the hardships in pugging and progging in a pug.

Except your fundamental issue in this particular case is a hyperbolic interpretation of the ToS, something that you know, everyone has an opinion on, regardless of their in-game experience, or lack thereof.

[Takamorisan]

The only thing I agree that can be a hassle is 1) you can't call out a pure a healer but can a healer complain if the tank is pulling too much in his PoV? Can a Tank complain if the healer is focusing on damage? So its all about who complains first? Given its their own playstyle

The rest just sugar coat your words you will be able to complain about someone performance, you just need to sound like a gentlemen instead of a neanderthal.

[Shironeko_Narunyan]

I want this game to become like WoW where people are not afraid to express their opinions

So desperate for reactions, you're frantically pushing any button you can think of.

You forgot to mention Asmongold btw.

[Nethereal]

Eh. Just kick them without saying anything. If they want to know why they got kicked giver them a discord link.

[Lunalepsy]

Square's new ToS is going to absolutely kill pugging next tier. Let's take a look at some of their prohibited behaviors and provide examples on how this is going to kill pugging.

1. Expressions that compel a playing style
If someone hops into a PF and plays as pure healer and you call them out on it, you can now get banned for it. This is insane, I don't want a pure healer in my party. It's not even possible to clear with a pure healer on week 1.


2. Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.
What? Now I can't kick players that join a part 3 prog party if they're still stuck on part 1? What if the person accidentally joined a part 3 party and thought it was fresh prog? Am I going to get banned for asking them if they know how to do part 2?

3. Expressions that provoke or belittle another person, such as excessive criticism, negation/ridicule
More specifically `"It's [player name]'s fault that we wiped"`. I guess it's now illegal to point out what caused a wipe the previous pull in a prog party. Have fun progressing on mechanics like light rampant where it's extremely difficult to find out why there was a wipe without another person's pov.

Link: https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

It's just promoting common sense.

[VictorTheed]

I like interacting with peeps but this has me second guessing, thinking maybe I should avoid peeps who I've not been long term friends with on here so I don't get banned or receive penalties.

Plus does anyone know if forum bans count as strikes on your FFXIV account, does forum bans go for penalties towards your actual game account?

[LittleImp]

-snip-

I've literally spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours teaching content in this game over the past 5 or so years. Most of the people making statements like this don't even really participate in the raiding community, or understand any of the social politics associated with it.

To be frank there are a lot of unstable people on this game; Unstable people don't take any form of advice well, they're driven by intense anxiety or paranoia to read false meanings into things, completely regardless of how it's phrased. I've seen people get upset because they felt the advice was phrased too nicely, and therefore must be condescending. People like this take being asked to leave, or being removed via a kick even worse, because it's usually a confirmation of some kind of self-fulfilling insecurity they have.

I almost never address anyone directly when it comes to mistakes, and put a big emphasis on positive reinforcement where it's due.
I have two strategies for pointing out mistakes. I try as hard as possible to never address anyone directly, because I don't think putting someone on the spot and turning the party against them is constructive in most cases. I either:

A.) Say something like "It looks like someone popped an orb there, moving like this can help avoid it"
or
B.) Ask "Did anyone see what went wrong there?" even if I know exactly what went wrong. Getting people to explain and work through what went wrong is usually constructive, and it gives the person an opportunity to admit fault, which is a very important quality for someone looking to become a competent raider.

Sometimes I even just disband parties outright because I feel bad about singling out someone and kicking them.

Although most of my experiences are overwhelmingly positive, I run into the occasional unstable person that doesn't take things well under any circumstances. I've had a guy sit outside my FC house for two days straight after I asked him to leave a clear party for a fight he openly admitted he didn't actually know. I've been stalked around by an ex-static mate and put on blast in various raiding discords because I kicked him from the static after he literally went berserk and started screaming in a voice call over a minor mistake someone else made, all caught on VOD.

It's extremely disheartening when people imply these types of things are entirely my fault, and that I should have somehow treated genuinely malicious people like this 'better' than I already did. Do you genuinely think people like this are above lodging petty reports against people they don't like? Some of these new policies can potentially lend legitimacy to some of the claims these people might make out of spite, which is why it's concerning.

[ForteNightshade]

Wrong. You know why you are wiping...you know the problem...you know how to correct it, but you bungle it by just saying " The DRG keeps messing up". This is petty and juvenile. Fixing the problem by creating a difficult finger pointing situation just compounds the issue.

It's easy to point a finger at someone and say "You messed up, STOP IT!". Does that really fix the problem? Hell no!

How is it juvenile to point out who is making the mistake? You're assuming even they know or that calling out said mistake is purposefully petty. Per my example if the aforementioned DRG were consistently wiping us to Lions in E12S and someone asked what's the issue. Why do I need to be needlessly vague and dance around who's causing the problem to avoid potentially hurt feelings? It's essentially treating everyone like we're toddlers who can't handle even the slightest degree of criticism. I shouldn't have to go over every single spot as if we're just starting prog because of one person. With that said, I also wouldn't ripping into said person over a mistake. Saying something along the lines of, "Cassandra, you're going to the wrong spot" is neither toxic nor juvenile yet according to these rules, if they're enforced literally, it will be. Instead, they want the entirely childish approach of "Okay everyone. Let's go over marker placements again since people seem lost."

It's comically silly we have to be this vague all to spare feelings because god forbid someone gets upset. Like I said, what this will result in is more people simply leaving or groups disbanding after 2-3 wipes.