Extreme over correction in ToS? New ToS is going to kill pugging

[Ilyrian]

Who is chatting in PuGs?

[Minsue]

there not there doomsaying because square is taking a stance on stuff you can totally talk to people and advise why or how they can improve just can't be a jerk about it. Oh how dare they make you speak without turning into a child screaming over xbox.

[LaylaTsarra]

If it upsets the OP they're doing something right. Nice job SE.

Seriously about time they're addressing the PF Seller abuse and hopefully we've seen the last of it.

[Sqwall]

I almost never address anyone directly when it comes to mistakes, and put a big emphasis on positive reinforcement where it\\\\\\'s due.
I have two strategies for pointing out mistakes. I try as hard as possible to never address anyone directly, because I don\\\\\\'t think putting someone on the spot and turning the party against them is constructive in most cases. I either:

A.) Say something like "It looks like someone popped an orb there, moving like this can help avoid it"
or
B.) Ask "Did anyone see what went wrong there?" even if I know exactly what went wrong. Getting people to explain and work through what went wrong is usually constructive, and it gives the person an opportunity to admit fault, which is a very important quality for someone looking to become a competent raider.

Sometimes I even just disband parties outright because I feel bad about singling out someone and kicking them.

Although most of my experiences are overwhelmingly positive, I run into the occasional unstable person that doesn\\\\\\'t take things well under any circumstances. I\\\\\\'ve had a guy sit outside my FC house for two days straight after I asked him to leave a clear party for a fight he openly admitted he didn\\\\\\'t actually know. I\\\\\\'ve been stalked around by an ex-static mate and put on blast in various raiding discords because I kicked him from the static after he literally went berserk and started screaming in a voice call over a minor mistake someone else made, all caught on VOD.

It\\\\\\'s extremely disheartening when people imply these types of things are entirely my fault, and that I should have somehow treated genuinely malicious people like this \\\\\\'better\\\\\\' than I already did. Do you genuinely think people like this are above lodging petty reports against people they don\\\\\\'t like? Some of these new policies can potentially lend legitimacy to some of the claims these people might make out of spite, which is why it\\\\\\'s concerning.

It’s not like SE can pull chat logs and see if the complaint lines up. Be respectful like you we’re in your “casandra” example and there is nothing be worried about. With your other example going over the target makers is condescending and passive aggressive, plus it doesn’t give any indication what happened. Again. You know what happened. Don’t be a jerk. I don’t see that it’s this hard to be respectful and helpful at the same time. Not everything has to be cheeky feedback and thinking it’s being helpful.

[Sqwall]

Geez. I suppose they should have changed the TOS to say. “Don’t be a dick”.


Nuff said

[CaptainLagbeard]

There are some cases I find absolutely ridiculous that they are there...

・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.

"If you can't do the mechanic well, maybe you shouldn't bother joining the party."
"If you don't understand that, you'd be wise to leave the party."
"Don't join if your equipment is that bad/such a low item level."

While the third one is a bit more rare, since you can set a required ilvl for a group...
The other two are still definitely a valid concern, as you can't tell someone to not join a clear group for practicing a fight from the start.

[SaberMaxwell]

Geez. I suppose they should have changed the TOS to say. “Don’t be a dick”.


Nuff said

Reported for swearing and general condescension throughout the thread. Have a good day.

[lezard21]

I mean, OP is not wrong. Now if your internet connection happens to go down at the wrong time (before a wipe or when a duty starts) you can now be reported and banned? A bit extreme just to combat Mentor abuse. Would have been a lot simpler to just remove the Mentor System.

[LittleImp]

There are some cases I find absolutely ridiculous that they are there...

・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.

"If you can't do the mechanic well, maybe you shouldn't bother joining the party."
"If you don't understand that, you'd be wise to leave the party."
"Don't join if your equipment is that bad/such a low item level."

While the third one is a bit more rare, since you can set a required ilvl for a group...
The other two are still definitely a valid concern, as you can't tell someone to not join a clear group for practicing a fight from the start.

My sense is that the clause at the top of that section which references an "Administrator" and offers a free company leader as an example implies that a party finder host might also be an "administrator" and thus have the rights to set such requirements. It definitely needs more clarity. Even still, if this is only targeted at DF it's still kind of concerning. I've seen parties that are literally, mathematically unable to clear normal mode duties because multiple people joined in gear that was literally unviable in that content. Titania NM is a pretty common example.

[GrimGale]

They can't ban you if you don't say anything. More reason for me to not even speak during dungeons or roulettes.