Dark Knight Megathread

[Beddict]

I actually want to rebuttal that thought about Dark Arts.

I'd say another problem with Dark Arts in Stormblood is that while you had a lot of choices on where to use Dark Arts, most of those choices were meaningless. Looking at this Heavensward DRK guide from Patch 3.0, Dark Arts buffed the following:

• Power Slash - Dark Arts Effect: Increased enmity
• Souleater - Dark Arts Effect: +140 Potency
• Dark Dance - Dark Arts Effect: Evasion increased by 20%
• Dark Mind - Dark Arts Effect: Increases magic vulnerability reduction to 30%
• Abyssal Drain - Dark Arts Effect: Absorbs 100% of damage dealt as HP
• Carve and Spit - Dark Arts Effect: +350 Potency, removes MP Restore
• Dark Passenger - Dark Arts Effect: +150 Potency, Blind Duration: 15s

So, seven abilities buffed by Dark Arts, but all pretty different in function. Now let's compare that to DRK at the end of Stormblood, just before the release of Shadowbringers:

• Syphon Strike - Dark Arts Effect: +140 Potency
• Power Slash - Dark Arts Effect: +140 Potency
• Souleater - Dark Arts Effect: +140 Potency
• Dark Passenger - Dark Arts Effect: +140 Potency, Blind Duration: 15s
• Plunge - Dark Arts Effect: +140 Potency
• Abyssal Drain - Dark Arts Effect: Absorbs a portion of damage dealt as HP
• Carve and Spit - Dark Arts Effect: +350 Potency, removes MP Restore
• Quietus - Dark Arts Effect: +50 Potency
• Bloodspiller - Dark Arts Effect: +140 Potency

That's two more abilities buffed by Dark Arts compared to Heavensward, but the choices largely sucked. Syphon Strike, Power Slash, Souleater, Plunge, Quietus, and Bloodspiller are all a simple +140 Potency (+50 for Quietus because it's AoE) and that's it. If Dark Arts is just buffing Potency by the same amount for each then does it really matter where you use Dark Arts? No, of course not. I Dark Arts Syphon Strike and then use Souleater, I deal 690 Potency. I use Syphon Strike and then Dark Arts Souleater, I deal 690 Potency. Woohoo, the exact same outcome, who gives a shit.

I loved the idea of buffing certain abilities with Dark Arts, and I'm sad to see it get tossed in the bin, but it also isn't surprising when Dark Arts was affecting all but three GCDs, and the effect was a garbage +140 Potency and nothing else. Pair that with the massive amount of MP generation DRK had and yeah, it was a problem with players spamming Dark Arts for basically no effect other than to dump MP. One SE took one look at, said screw it, and just killed the entire idea.

[Aword3213]

Still doesn't mean their arguement that DRK is based on 4.2 Warrior... My grind here is that you don't just dismiss Baxel's complaint as invalid because of "seniority

You confused me. That reply was directed to that person only.If you like to take that seat, be my guest. Just don't come bothering me.
What statement, exactly? How were you able to decipher he was complaining 4.2 warrior clone in his reply below is beyond me

but you don't like DRK.. you like WAR.. and that is sadly not what this class should be..

you started to disregard everyone points that agreed with Baxel's statement.

the point being he played Stormblood DRK so other people cannot like ShB DRK?

I was called out specifically. As I said, I'm not here to make argument., but I was asked to make one.Here's the difference you go. I gave my reason and that was it.

The reason that brought me here is the word carbon copy. It is a strong word. If it's partially the same. then it's not carbon copy.

and I ended it with this

but carbon copy is not the right word. It just isn't.

If you're using the strong word that doesn't fit the definition, just suck it up when some point it out. People know exaggeration when they see one.

I am calling you ignorant because I don't see you trying to understand what DRK used to be or originally should've been.

Well, you insulted me, so here's the "old relic of the past" for ya. take it.

I don't care whether you yell out insults or lull like some politican, speak your mind, and I'll do the same.)

what insult? that veteran thing was never meant for anyone but the person I replied to.

by defending the tiniest differences between Delirium vs. Inner Release,you don't really "support the desire to demand changes".

Obviously, I can't ask for changes when DRK not getting many new stuff in EW. Thanks for letting me know

Let me ask you this tho: If Delirium and Inner Release are so different, is there another ability in the game that lets you hit 5 GCD gauge spenders over 10s, on the same CD of 90s? Ofc not!
Is there any other job in the game that generates exactly 20 gauge after using their aoe? No, there isn't!

Dude, what are you smoking?

I can agree with Delirium = IR part

I don't know if you have ever played WAR and seen the similarities. There are too many gameplay-wise, and too meagre the differences.
You like ShB DRK? Fine!

this escalated quickly

We - who are "stuck in nostalgia" - are just tired to repeat ourselves that DRK is a WAR clone, just be called out by some peep - that played this for 2 months, and WAR for like just 5 min - this wouldn't be true.

keep repeating. You forbid me from asking changes, so I might just as well sit here and watch you struggle

[OdinelStarrei]

Whoa, there's a lot of anger going on in here. Until I know exactly what the gameplay loop looks like, I would still say a lot of this preamble is premature, and there's no need to be this explosive. I know people are really tired of getting screwed every single expansion somehow and not being listened to. I went from hating LD, to viscerally hating Delirium, to now just biding my time. The biggest problem with DRK isn't Delirium, it's not Blood Weapon, it isn't the MP economy, it isn't the Spell 2.5 GCD, and it isn't Living Dead. It's this.



If this fundamental awful problem of being incredibly boring outside burst can be fixed in EW, I think it would take a LOT of focus off Delirium being the "core" of the DRK burst, even though it REALLY ISN'T. People laser focus on things like Delirium because the kit has nothing else worthwhile or engaging, except TBN, which is debatable. DRK resembles NIN minus mudras a lot more than it resembles WAR when you play it at the maximum, optimized potential. But again, SE has failed to make that obvious by being lazy with their cooldown design, and striking dummy-like boss design, causing this divide.

DRK is not strictly a WAR clone, it isn't, from where the majority of the damage bursts are, to the underlying mechanics, to how I actually approach things like mitigation and set-up.But I don't blame anyone for saying that it is when the rest of the kit is bone-dry like this, and PARTICULARY when there is like maybe two relevant fights in the entire game where DRK can really shine and set itself apart from other tanks. We needed way more information on how tanks are going to distinguish themselves in content in those LL slides than what we got. Since we didn't we just get to scream in the void at each other for a few more weeks.

DRK can burn now for all I care.

I don't blame you one bit. This sucks. The tank role in general is a tragedy from every angle. Playerbase, development, and overall sentiment.

[WhyAmIHere]

-snip-

I love it when folks are able to be more versed than me in trying to convey what i'd want to convey. makes it easier to use their words for me.
But yeah this is the crux of my point. old Dark Arts was too widely spread in application, and when implemented in a more focused manner ala Kaiten or Continuation, you see the ability as meaningful. It's not as spammy, it's ony got a specific use for it, and it's not hit all the time.
Its that lack of focus and effort on part of the job design team that I lament. Dark Arts could've been cool to use had it's usage been adjusted at all, like how Kaiten is specific in what it's best to use on, or in Continuation, in that it's only able to be used after specific actions taken; those specific actions themselves are also not moves that the player will be hitting all the time, but in this case every 30 seconds.

Whoa, there's a lot of anger going on in here. Until I know exactly what the gameplay loop looks like, I would still say a lot of this preamble is premature, and there's no need to be this explosive. I know people are really tired of getting screwed every single expansion somehow and not being listened to. I went from hating LD, to viscerally hating Delirium, to now just biding my time. The biggest problem with DRK isn't Delirium, it's not Blood Weapon, it isn't the MP economy, it isn't the Spell 2.5 GCD, and it isn't Living Dead. It's this.



If this fundamental awful problem of being incredibly boring outside burst can be fixed in EW, I think it would take a LOT of focus off Delirium being the "core" of the DRK burst, even though it REALLY ISN'T. People laser focus on things like Delirium because the kit has nothing else worthwhile or engaging, except TBN, which is debatable. DRK resembles NIN minus mudras a lot more than it resembles WAR when you play it at the maximum, optimized potential. But again, SE has failed to make that obvious by being lazy with their cooldown design, and striking dummy-like boss design, causing this divide.

DRK is not strictly a WAR clone, it isn't, from where the majority of the damage bursts are, to the underlying mechanics, to how I actually approach things like mitigation and set-up.But I don't blame anyone for saying that it is when the rest of the kit is bone-dry like this, and PARTICULARY when there is like maybe two relevant fights in the entire game where DRK can really shine and set itself apart from other tanks. We needed way more information on how tanks are going to distinguish themselves in content in those LL slides than what we got. Since we didn't we just get to scream in the void at each other for a few more weeks.

I'd agree that DRK and NIN do play similarly, minus mudras. But the "All it does is spam it's 1-2-3 combo" isn't necessarily the biggest issue, but I'd say it's adjacent to the bigger issue: What does DRK do that makes it special? What sets it apart from it's peers, how valuable is it, what impact does it bring?

Personally, all I'm waiting to see is how DRK will/wont have changed going in to Endwalker. What will Salted Earth 2.0 do? Is it's potency increased? It's duration? What about this Peppered Earth ability? What'll that do? Is it a DoT, or just damage? Can it be used multiple times during Salted's duration? Does it generate MP/Blood?
Then there's the Dark Wave looking ability. Is it only available after using Edge/Flood of Shadow? Is it free or does it cost MP / Blood? Will it give a free Derp Arts* proc?
Abyssal Drain then, is it's heal being adjusted to make up for using it against a single target when compared to the potency heal given by Equilibrium/Aurora/Clemency? Is it's recast being adjusted? It's potency?

Other than that, typically job trailers will have shown off all abilities one can look forward to on launch. I didn't see any big move to end the Delirium window, but we also strangely didn't see 3x Bloodspillers after Delirium anyway. WAR? Nah, 3 Fell Cleaves, ending with the overhead leaping spinnaroonie bananaslamma smash.
That looked cool, that looked impactful. DRK failed to impress, and if it'll just be more of the same come EW, I think I'll keep posting here to voice my dissatisfaction with the job.

I miss my resource management. It's the tank that's most suited to that, with two individual gauges that used to be more interactive with each other. The skeleton for a unique identity and gameplay's there, but the amount of effort it'd take to develop and balance something as wide as that gameplay mentality is IMO something the dev team doesn't want to "waste developer time and resources on," so easy route it is, for an already small portion of the playerbase.

[Garnix]

100% agree with this. I said it multiple times in this thread, the problem is not delirium, it is the burst window.

[Hurrican]

I am calling you ignorant because I don't see you trying to understand what DRK used to be or originally should've been.

Geez, why can't you just understand not everyone agrees with you. People just see thing differently. I don't see you trying to understand the point he was trying to make either.

such toxicity is a disgrace to FFXIV community

[Lyth]

...

There are a few things that you can tell from the video.

Salted Earth still as 15 second duration. It does not appear to grant resources or HP. Blood Boil does not appear to grant resources or HP, and is not a DoT.

Darkness/Dark Wave doesn't use blood. It doesn't give you Dark Arts or resources. It doesn't increase your timer on Darkside, unlike Edge or Flood. I'm not sure why the dev team specifically mentioned that your Shadow can use it, although it's always possible that this action and Carve and Spit get duplicated by your shadow while it's active. That might be clunky though, given that there's a lag when the Shadow gets summoned which this doesn't apply to.

[Nyarlha]

There are a few things that you can tell from the video.

Salted Earth still as 15 second duration. It does not appear to grant resources or HP. Blood Boil does not appear to grant resources or HP, and is not a DoT.

Darkness/Dark Wave doesn't use blood. It doesn't give you Dark Arts or resources. It doesn't increase your timer on Darkside, unlike Edge or Flood. I'm not sure why the dev team specifically mentioned that your Shadow can use it, although it's always possible that this action and Carve and Spit get duplicated by your shadow while it's active. That might be clunky though, given that there's a lag when the Shadow gets summoned which this doesn't apply to.

I was thinking the new ability was something that may become available only while your shadow is out.

[Axxion]

like someone mentioned before. We will need to wait until 10/13. that's when the embargo is going to be lifted. Then we can truly see what these changes are

[RatCopter]

I'm not sure why the dev team specifically mentioned that your Shadow can use it, although it's always possible that this action and Carve and Spit get duplicated by your shadow while it's active.

Safest assumption is probably an "Improved Living Shadow" trait. And I don't think it's duplicated, the general order of abilities that shadow uses looks the same as it is now, they were just being stylish like they were in ShB trailer.

I've seen a couple of people assuming Flood 2.0 is tied to Living Shadow, and I really don't think that's the case because it would be incredibly bad, and I have at least a little faith in squeenix.
I will eat my greatsword if it is.