What's the Healer rush?

[Plastics]

Pulling small does a few things:

1. The tank takes more damage. Yep, over the course of the dungeon, you will take more damage. You can't stack mits and blow invulns on a huge pack and delete all that damage, you have to stagger them because you're slowly pulling, meaning most of the time you're taking unmitigated hits.
2. The healer will not actually need to heal. You might think this sounds good, but you're not a tank and 3 dps. A healer is a resource you're actively deciding not to use. You do not need heals in most dungeons if you pull 1 pack at a time. Not even on bosses. This is why a healer in your group WILL NOT HEAL YOU AT ALL if you pull this way. This isn't them telling you that you're shit, it's because it's a waste of a GCD, and they know it, so should you.
3. You're deleting enormous damage potency from the group. You are therefore a massive net negative to the party's DPS and the reason the run takes 20+ minutes instead of what it should take, making you the worst player in the group, much worse than a bad healer or a bad dps. Damage potency scales linearly with the number of targets, to a potency per GCD far in excess of anything possible on a boss or even a small pack (which may not even be a per-GCD potency damage increase for some classes). This stacks with damage CDs. Without pulls like these, those CDs will be used on 1-2-3 targets and not be very effective.

It's not just the healer in your group trying to get you to go faster. It's everyone. Don't be the anchor, don't be the worst player in your group.

[Averax]

Healing a dungeon is boring if you're just single pulling. Make your health bar move so i can feel alive!

[ForteNightshade]

Pretty much the reason I have all tanks at 80 for the amaro but didn't bother learning how to play them properly. I'd be in Copperbell, tell the team I'm still getting it all under my belt and intentionally sticking to low dungeons to practice, and still get healers and dps running ahead and dumping more on me. So I noped out. Leveled with like MSQ and Deep Dungeon and other non-dungeon methods. Which was a shame for me, because I loved my Protection Paladin in WoW.

Because it's Copperbell. Those entry dungeons can be tanked entirely by the DPS. They're absolutely no threat whatsoever so people just ahead because they're bored, especially high level players getting synced down in Leveling Roulette. If you learned how to play them properly, you'd discover just how ridiculously powerful they are in a big pull setting and why it's more or less the standard nowadays. Warrior is practically unkillable; Dark Knight hardly takes any damage once you unlock TBN and Gunbreaker does insane amounts of damage for a tank.

I hate the mindset that healers are just a one button job. It's a lot more complicated then that

Only if you're doing wall to wall pulls. Otherwise, you're a gimped DPS spamming Art of War/Holy/Gravity. Small pulls simply don't deal enough damage for you to even pay the slightest bit of attention to the tank. I've literally gone entire dungeons with a small pulling tank where I didn't even heal them once. No Cure II, no Regen, nothing. They weren't taking enough damage for me to do anything but spam Holy or Glare. Even in an undergeared scenario, I'd maybe have to slap a Regen on them.

Small pulls are so weak, you'd legit be better off releasing the healer with another DPS. You wouldn't even need it to be Red Mage necessarily.

[TaleraRistain]

Because it's Copperbell. Those entry dungeons can be tanked entirely by the DPS. They're absolutely no threat whatsoever so people just ahead because they're bored, especially high level players getting synced down in Leveling Roulette. If you learned how to play them properly, you'd discover just how ridiculously powerful they are in a big pull setting and why it's more or less the standard nowadays. Warrior is practically unkillable; Dark Knight hardly takes any damage once you unlock TBN and Gunbreaker does insane amounts of damage for a tank.

Yeah, one of the FIRST THREE dungeons of the game. You're essentially saying that we shouldn't have anywhere that tanks can learn. I can't learn how to play them properly because no one will LET ME. Would you rather I try to go practice in Pagl'than?? Because people on these forums whine that tanks don't know what to do by level 80. Well if you don't let them learn at level 17, they sure as hell aren't going to know at 80.

[ForteNightshade]

Yeah, one of the FIRST THREE dungeons of the game. You're essentially saying that we shouldn't have anywhere that tanks can learn. I can't learn how to play them properly because no one will LET ME. Would you rather I try to go practice in Pagl'than?? Because people on these forums whine that tanks don't know what to do by level 80. Well if you don't let them learn at level 17, they sure as hell aren't going to know at 80.

You're not learning how to tank in Copperbell. The first two "bosses" literally can't even be tanked due to how the "mechanics" work. Furthermore, the concept of tanking at its core is "picking up aggro". If a DPS runs ahead of you in Sastasha, press your AoE. Congratulations, you've established aggro. That's all there is to learn at this level. You're also neglecting the fact that you might not be the only new player, and new DPS may not really being thinking about mob aggro. Nor are they going to be particularly phased when they do aggro something and it... barely does any damage to them. This is part of the issue with dungeon design as a whole. Many players are only going to respond to things which threaten them. It's precisely why vuln stacks are considered a meme. The increased damage isn't enough to matter, so people don't care.

Ideally, I'd actually agree with you that these baby dungeons should be a learning tools for tanks. Sadly, they're just... not.

It isn't until the more "meaty" dungeons like Sunken Temple or Stone Vigil where you actually have pull sizes to consider and enough mobs that can arguably threaten a tank, nevermind a DPS. In fact, when I first decided to learn tanking, I specifically spammed Stone Vigil, Darkhold and Aurum Vale because all three had unique challenges for a beginner tank. Granted, nowadays you can get away with pulling way more in Stone Vigil but it's still a good place to practice.

And while you may be using Pagl'than as a mock example. The sad part is... you honestly could use it for practice. So long as you know the basics of big pulls, which typically are: rotate your CDs and AoE. That dungeon just... doesn't deal any damage. Another problem with the dungeon design, though this is more Expert dungeons specifically.

[TaleraRistain]

So long as you know the basics of big pulls, which typically are: rotate your CDs and AoE.

So where are tanks going to learn the basics of big pulls if other players never let them? And what about the tanks who aren't high enough for SV, DD, AV, etc? Make their groups suffer until they get there? I was in like my 20s running these places, actually trying to learn as I went.

[Nethereal]

Yeah, one of the FIRST THREE dungeons of the game. You're essentially saying that we shouldn't have anywhere that tanks can learn. I can't learn how to play them properly because no one will LET ME. Would you rather I try to go practice in Pagl'than?? Because people on these forums whine that tanks don't know what to do by level 80. Well if you don't let them learn at level 17, they sure as hell aren't going to know at 80.

I fail to see the issue.
Practicing in the worst conditions possible mean that when you are under the best conditions you are usually better than people who have only practiced in one setting.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, I like the shark tank.

[AngelCheese77]

Was gunna say...

I don't queue as healer to watch youtube. Not to mention the admission was just circumventing the problem.
You are bored with small pulls that's why you watch youtube, if you weren't watching youtube you would be bored with small pulls, that's why you're watching youtube.

Class isn't boring I watch youtube when I'm there.

Incorrect. Love how you grab words and conclusions out of thin air.

I am tired of the in game music so I listen to something else. Should have clarified I listen to it not watch as I don’t have a way to do that safely. Guess no one ever heard of being able to do 2 things at once?

I always an casting. #1 rule I feel. Those who are bored are just healing amd not participating. If you are bored in any dungeon then you aren’t doing your full class potential and that’s on you.

I also know when to leave. If I spemd all my MP keeping a group up through heavy pulls isn’t fun. It sucks. Rushing isn’t fun either for everyone. And lord help anyone who Rescues a tank into mobs.

And worst of all is the tank who heavy pulls with no care that their healer can’t keep up. That is stressful. And selfish. Another trait slowly showing

Overall I have never been bored as a healer no matter what others conclude of my words. Human nature allows people to become distracted. Ever notice you mind wandering? Or your gaze? Even when constantly healing I’ve thought of other things

Eh rambling here. But if your healer or DPS run ahead, let them. Pre 50 dungeons the danger really isn’t that high, and they can take a few hits easy. With post 50 dungeons being linear and having barricades every so often, it’s not that hard to grab 2 groups and a few solo ones

But never let anyone force you to play their way. In the DF it can happen. Never be afraid to leave a dungeon. Your fun and comfort more important

[PredatoryCatgirl]

This thread convinced me to sign off of the forums. I have never actually seen anything anywhere close to this toxicity in game. Y'all need whatever whatever this game's equivalent of Jesus is. Probably Minfilia.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Incorrect. Love how you grab words and conclusions out of thin air.

I am tired of the in game music so I listen to something else. Should have clarified I listen to it not watch as I don’t have a way to do that safely. Guess no one ever heard of being able to do 2 things at once?

I always an casting. #1 rule I feel. Those who are bored are just healing amd not participating. If you are bored in any dungeon then you aren’t doing your full class potential and that’s on you[…]

I had to stop reading at that point to ask: enlighten me what you mean by ”doing your full class potential.”.

Is it:
• Using all your resources and MP, not being able to DPS as much as a healer because your party is barely mediocre at best, if not below average & eats mechanic 90% of time?; or…
• Planned out all your healing abilities adequately, so much you probably don’t even spend any GCD using healing spells and blast away everything with your DPS spam buttons ad nauseam?

Also, I’m assuming that the tank in question is wall pulling or at least doing 2 packs per pull at minimum.