A request for Endwalker Dungeons (No more Undertuned)

[ForteNightshade]

But that begs the question. If ARR dungeons were more challenging than current dungeons, why is that? Why would SE slowly make the dungeons more faceroll easy if purportedly more players wanted that content to be more difficult? I obviously don't have the metrics but a logical guess would be because the majority of players wanted it that way. And remember, the forums are not where the majority of players are.

Because developers make assumptions which are not always reflective of the feedback given or even welcomed. WoW is quite notorious for that despite very vocal opposition from practically every level. Keep in mind, their dev team said, and I quote "You think you want WoW Classic, but really, you don't."

In regards to FFXIV specifically, I need only point to current Bard and Monk as primary examples of the dev team not listening to feedback. Bard was the most popular DPS in Stormblood and has dropped to battling with Black Mage for the least popular. While Dancer inevitably played a factor in its decline. It's still a pretty sizable fall from grace. The Monk reception especially stands out as the dev team were forced to not only panic buff it but perform two overhauls through Shadowbringers all while claiming Monk had been the job they were "most proud of" at the media tour prior. And now they've overhauled it again for Endwalker.

The issue with previously difficult dungeons is there has always been an easier alternative. Why would anyone bother with a harder objective for the exact same rewards? Look at Alliance Roulette and how people ilvl cheese it to purposely force Crystal Tower. In fact, Orbonne had to be nerfed and given echo just to keep people from bailing. Was it too hard? No. It's just you could more easily wipe, thus wasting upwards of 40-60 minutes for the same rewards a braindead LotA offered. Pharos Sirius had similar problems; being much harder than its counterpart dungeons without the incentive to compensate. Imagine if you could only choose a hypothetical Roulette that either gave you all of Shadowbringers' leveling dungeons (71-80) or its Expert dungeons (80+). I guarantee you almost no one would ever touch the Leveling version because Expert dungeons are easier.

At the end of the day, it's all about the reward offered. If two dungeons released in a patch were the same difficulty, and both were harder than what we have now. No one would really say anything. They'd still run them just as normal because there isn't an "easier" alternative.

[Lium]

At the end of the day, it's all about the reward offered.

Excellent points all around, but your post brings up another issue I've seen repeated in this thread. Specifically, the part I just quoted.

Why is it only about the reward? That's the fallacy in the argument. If people just want a challenge, then shouldn't that be the reward in and of itself? Assuming that's what they are really after, the challenge. Not brain dead content.

If SE offers a more difficult dungeon than what we have now, but as you say, no one plays it when an easier alternative exists, is that not a player problem? Because if you go with that argument, it sounds like the content you're looking for is actually out there, you just don't want to play it because you can do an easier dungeon and gain the same reward for doing less work. (Not you specifically. Just you in general.)

[SnowVix]

Bard was the most popular DPS in Stormblood and has dropped to battling with Black Mage for the least popular. While Dancer inevitably played a factor in its decline. It's still a pretty sizable fall from grace.

Bard was not popular on its own merits, it was popular because it was the only good physical ranged. MCH required far higher execution plus good ping to do.... the same raw damage, with no party utility.