A request for Endwalker Dungeons (No more Undertuned)

[Shironeko_Narunyan]

What you see here on the forum, and what you see in the game, are two completely different worlds.
You'd think, reading these forums, that everyone playing this game is extremely skilled, and the dungeons are too easy.
Then you log into the game, do a roulette, and the tank doesn't know what a cooldown is, the healer hard-casts Cure I, and the DPS stand in the bad.

Dungeons are part of the story, and as long as that's the case, they can't be harder.
For balance, not the extremely skilled elite, made up of forum posters, but the actual player community in game is relevant.

[ItMe]

What you see here on the forum, and what you see in the game, are two completely different worlds.

Hahaha true that.
I just got out of a run of Orbonne where (without wiping) everyone in every alliance died at least once.
Heck, we lost about 8 people across the 3 alliances on the first trash pack.
Brutal.
And no one was new to the duty.

Yeah, sometimes I need a run like that to remind me what real FF14 roulettes are actually like outside my static haha..

Cuz like, Orbonne isn't really punishing anymore.
It just has nice mechanical variety.
But even that looks like it can be asking too much.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Hahaha true that.
I just got out of a run of Orbonne where (without wiping) everyone in every alliance died at least once.
Heck, we lost about 8 people across the 3 alliances on the first trash pack.
Brutal.
And no one was new to the duty.

Yeah, sometimes I need a run like that to remind me what real FF14 roulettes are actually like outside my static haha..

Cuz like, Orbonne isn't really punishing anymore.
It just has nice mechanical variety.
But even that looks like it can be asking too much.

Most if not all duties people have complained about being too hard are ones that required people to actually do mechanics to clear.

The 2 party duties that stand out were that one at the start of HW with the dragon crossing the bridge that basically was the entrance into actually doing HW or going to those areas and the other was Shinryu normal at the end of the initial Stormblood MSQ that needed to be cleared to start the actual endgame at that time or even access the tomestone vendors. The others I remember seeing were solo MSQ duties that also had mechanics that had to be completed or it would fail.

[Lium]

What you see here on the forum, and what you see in the game, are two completely different worlds.
You'd think, reading these forums, that everyone playing this game is extremely skilled, and the dungeons are too easy.
Then you log into the game, do a roulette, and the tank doesn't know what a cooldown is, the healer hard-casts Cure I, and the DPS stand in the bad.

Dungeons are part of the story, and as long as that's the case, they can't be harder.
For balance, not the extremely skilled elite, made up of forum posters, but the actual player community in game is relevant.

I honestly wish I could like this comment more. I've been saying this for years. Not only here, but other MMOs I play which have similar takes.

The forum community is always elite players who never, ever make a mistake in anything, and they always want the game to be INCREDIBLY hard, punishing and unforgiving. Maybe even permanent death, or that the very least the loss of all your stuff (which some old MMOs used to do.)

Thank god the forum community in almost any game makes up such a tiny fraction of the overall playerbase. There is a reason AAA MMOs have mostly easy dungeons.

It's because the age of the average gamer in the US today is 35 years old. And most have families now. This isn't 2005 anymore. Most people that started playing old school games are now adults. They play a couple hours a night or whenever they can sneak some time in. They don't want to spend time figuring out crazy hard dungeons.

More so in a Final Fantasy game, where story is king.

[Axxion]

I honestly wish I could like this comment more. I've been saying this for years. Not only here, but other MMOs I play which have similar takes.

The forum community is always elite players who never, ever make a mistake in anything, and they always want the game to be INCREDIBLY hard, punishing and unforgiving. Maybe even permanent death, or that the very least the loss of all your stuff (which some old MMOs used to do.)

Thank god the forum community in almost any game makes up such a tiny fraction of the overall playerbase. There is a reason AAA MMOs have mostly easy dungeons.

It's because the age of the average gamer in the US today is 35 years old. And most have families now. This isn't 2005 anymore. Most people that started playing old school games are now adults. They play a couple hours a night or whenever they can sneak some time in. They don't want to spend time figuring out crazy hard dungeons.

More so in a Final Fantasy game, where story is king.

Its about not making it harder but making it more interesting. Every dungeon in this game is very linear. We did ask to have "Mythic plus" for those that want a challenge. But Yoshi said no.

And the comment of elite players not everybody are elite players , some (speaking for myself) want a challenge in between patch cycles after extreme and savage content has been done.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I honestly wish I could like this comment more. I've been saying this for years. Not only here, but other MMOs I play which have similar takes.

The forum community is always elite players who never, ever make a mistake in anything, and they always want the game to be INCREDIBLY hard, punishing and unforgiving. Maybe even permanent death, or that the very least the loss of all your stuff (which some old MMOs used to do.)

Thank god the forum community in almost any game makes up such a tiny fraction of the overall playerbase. There is a reason AAA MMOs have mostly easy dungeons.

It's because the age of the average gamer in the US today is 35 years old. And most have families now. This isn't 2005 anymore. Most people that started playing old school games are now adults. They play a couple hours a night or whenever they can sneak some time in. They don't want to spend time figuring out crazy hard dungeons.

More so in a Final Fantasy game, where story is king.

I'm 32 with a full time job and back in school full time to finish my bachelor's degree.

Doesn't change my stance on not wanting dungeons to be brain dead.

Again, no one is asking for ex or savage level.

Just... Maybe something more along the lines of pharos Sirius when it released, or AK.

You know, make you think a bit. Them being slightly more difficult won't increase the time it takes to complete them much. In fact, the time it takes now is laughable. It used to take 35 minutes to get through leveling dungeons back in 2.0.

[Xaphire]

I'm 32 with a full time job and back in school full time to finish my bachelor's degree.

Doesn't change my stance on not wanting dungeons to be brain dead.

Again, no one is asking for ex or savage level.

Just... Maybe something more along the lines of pharos Sirius when it released, or AK.

You know, make you think a bit. Them being slightly more difficult won't increase the time it takes to complete them much. In fact, the time it takes now is laughable. It used to take 35 minutes to get through leveling dungeons back in 2.0.

As much as I also liked Pharos Sirius, getting it in roulette was also a wasted queue more often than not. It was very frequent for one or two of the people to leave the dungeon immediately upon queueing in. That's what I don't want to deal with.

[RitsukoSonoda]

As much as I also liked Pharos Sirius, getting it in roulette was also a wasted queue more often than not. It was very frequent for one or two of the people to leave the dungeon immediately upon queueing in. That's what I don't want to deal with.

If all the duties at that time were like Pharos Sirius in terms of difficulty and mechanical involvement, people wouldn't have been queue bailing to try and get a different duty.

[TaleraRistain]

If all the duties at that time were like Pharos Sirius in terms of difficulty and mechanical involvement, people wouldn't have been queue bailing to try and get a different duty.

No, they would have instead quit the game. The more that is done, the more niche it becomes, the less players the game has. The devs want the basic content that everyone is required to do to be accessible. That means it's going to be easy and not ask too much and is probably going to bore some who aren't challenged by it. There are other things the devs put in the game for that exact challenge.

The other thing to remember is the devs also want players to do the content. They tried more hard mode or tricky dungeons, like Pharos Sirius, and the playerbase avoided them. So where is their return on the work put in if their players avoid it?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

No, they would have instead quit the game. The more that is done, the more niche it becomes, the less players the game has. The devs want the basic content that everyone is required to do to be accessible. That means it's going to be easy and not ask too much and is probably going to bore some who aren't challenged by it. There are other things the devs put in the game for that exact challenge.

The other thing to remember is the devs also want players to do the content. They tried more hard mode or tricky dungeons, like Pharos Sirius, and the playerbase avoided them. So where is their return on the work put in if their players avoid it?

Actually most people's reasoning wasn't the difficulty, it was that the rewards were of the same ilvl as wp and AK, but it was more difficult, so why bother.