Is anyone else concerned about 6.0 Summoner?

[Haxaan]

As a Summoner player since ARR and Healer Main it is almost comical to see everyone cry about the complexity being nuked for simplicty. Where have these people been since SHB came out and the Healers were stripped of any and all complexity and became homogenized to the point of a single dps button?

With that out of the way, I think the visuals of the new Summoner are stunning and it FINALLY looks like a Final Fantasy Summoner. That being said, it is one thing to have flashy animations that look pretty and another for the mechanics behind them to play well and be fun. Summoner has been in a very weird place for a long time and it has needed to figure out it's identity. It looks like they have finally picked an identity for it and they hit the ground running with it. Let's just hope the gameplay is as fun and engaging as it is pretty.

When they showed the Astro animations for SHB I was in love, until I realized what they had done to the job in exchange. It is a shell of it's former self and while I do not like what they've done, I had to come to terms with that and realize that it was "for the good of the game" when balance was concerned. Mind you, I still have negeative feels about how dirty they did Ast, but we'll see how they adjust it in Endwalker. The same can be said about Summoner. We will all know more at the press event, until then everything is speculation.

[Roda]

As a Summoner player since ARR and Healer Main it is almost comical to see everyone cry about the complexity being nuked for simplicty. Where have these people been since SHB came out and the Healers were stripped of any and all complexity and became homogenized to the point of a single dps button?

I mean I personally don't comment much on jobs I don't play. So I assume, like me, they were busy playing summoner. :x (and nursing some hella carpel tunnel due to 5.0's required recursive weaving)

[ChazNatlo]

I confess I've been playing less since Shadow bringers, so I haven't experienced Healer... Unbloat? much. I am still a little sore from when they lost stance dancing, if only because I had a Macro set up to switch hotbars when I switched to Cleric Stance (I called it Cleric's Dance). So I may have cut back my healing long in advance of 5.0.

Edit: that said, it isn't unreasonable that some of the people complaining now were also complaining two years ago when ShB came out, if you check their post history.

[Wavaryen]

Yes, because we all know the dev team only changes things that the majority want. That's why at the beginning of the Live Letter, when they told us that they know a lot of us want to go back to say, 3.0 job complexity, they said they would. That they wouldn't instead double down on the more controversial 5.0 changes. Oh wait.

They just don't know what to do with SMN, just like SCH. Which I already realized back at the beginning of StB when they decided that we didn't need Sustain anymore. Or when SCH lost Energy Drain. Or why our Pet AI keeps getting worse.

Of course a lot of people are happy. Most of them are loving the animations. Which while nice, doesn't really matter to me, as I have them turned of most of the time to help things run better, and the the novelty of them will eventually wear off.

Fun is subjective. For me, and presumably some that main the class as well, the fun in SMN comes from everything I'm managing. Which all seems to be lacking based on the Demo. Did you see the hotbar during it? There was pretty much nothing there, and you have to keep in mind that was the at level 90. They mentioned that only 1 abilty/spell wasn't there, so that is pretty much it. How heck does this class work from 1-80, where a majority of the content for this game is going to be, especially at launch when we're going to have only a couple of things at 90? Why do we have so many insta cast spells when there doesn't appear to be much to weave, with Energy Drain now being on a 60 second cooldown. What is there to keep track of? With them taking DoTs, it seems to be our Gem summons, but... that so basic. Why was Carbuncle just sitting there looking pretty? Why does it seem like we're only going to be spamming Ruin 3 and Outburst, getting new coats of paint on them during trances? Why does it seem like they only listened to people who didn't like the way the job is and had alternatives to play if that was the case, but not the people who enjoyed it for what it was and will now have nothing to fill the void old SMN will leave?

To answer your question op, yes. I am very, very concerned about SMNs new direction.

They can easily look at what classes people enjoy what works and see what does not. Your feedback for a complex class is not what most of the player base wants. So the developers pick to run over your enjoyment to design a class that more players will enjoy.


That is the nature of a video game that is also a service. Things going to change. It happens to many classes I have played in mmorpgs over the years, and I'm use to it.


The thing is, not enough of people like you who enjoys complex classes, This is not what the game is about. Having both complex classes+complex fights=not fun for most players who play this game. Having simple but fun flashy classes with content that can be complex as optional is what the developers want to do.

[Kozh]

As a Summoner player since ARR and Healer Main it is almost comical to see everyone cry about the complexity being nuked for simplicty. Where have these people been since SHB came out and the Healers were stripped of any and all complexity and became homogenized to the point of a single dps button?

More like: where are you two years ago when people everywhere were complaining about healer was stripped of complexity and homogenized? And it's not just healer main who complained, some tank mains too.

People that complain now most likely also complain before. We're just repeating the same outcry because the devs doesn't listen to us.

[Kozh]

"Muh job complexity has been ruined by the filthy casuals" in tantrum mode for the past few days.

I mean, they are right though. Who else the devs lower solo instance's difficulty for? Not impossible they also reduce jobs complexity for casuals.

It's not about ego, it's about whether you feel your job becoming less fun and you don't like that change.

[Wavaryen]

I mean, they are right though. Who else the devs lower solo instance's difficulty for? Not impossible they also reduce jobs complexity for casuals.

It's not about ego, it's about whether you feel your job becoming less fun and you don't like that change.

And all the changes they made has lead to them getting more business, more profits, and more players.


That is all that matters at the end of the day for a business. So listening to casuals is what a good business does, and what this company is doing. Even if I question if they listening to the western market. They could more so be listening to JP base and they might not have liked summoner like it is also. Who knows.

[Nyarlha]

And all the changes they made has lead to them getting more business, more profits, and more players.


That is all that matters at the end of the day for a business. So listening to casuals is what a good business does, and what this company is doing. Even if I question if they listening to the western market. They could more so be listening to JP base and they might not have liked summoner like it is also. Who knows.

That is my point. The writing has been on the wall since ShB. No amount of tantrums, kicking and screaming on the forums will change the direction job design is heading toward. They've been pretty clear during the LL that 5.0 job design is what they are going for.

People need to accept that all their whining is just noise and move on if they can't accept it.

[CKNovel]

That is my point. The writing has been on the wall since ShB. No amount of tantrums, kicking and screaming on the forums will change the direction job design is heading toward. They've been pretty clear during the LL that 5.0 job design is what they are going for.

People need to accept that all their whining is just noise and move on if they can't accept it.

Complex job still exists in the game.
Black mage is still there and other jobs that feels complete, such as GNB, DRG, SAM, NIN... Those are still in the game and have a nice balance between complexity and accessibility.
A dude with no fingers cleared TEA, everything is clearable by anyone given they have patience.

Do your mental gymnastic as much as you want, there is complexity in the game.
It's not trantrums or crying, it's called concerns. You are crying about players not agreeing with that direction so that everything remains accessible to you. You're rejecting every argument without logic, just going with the "muh game, raider bad "

For myself I played MCH for 2 years, I did everything I could. If there is no evolution, I don't want to play the same job for another two years. I don't wish that feeling to anyone.
Raiders and casuals alike are like "I don't want to play with you anymore." when it comes to the job. Guess what will happen in two years? Casuals will move to the next shiny things.

[FoxyAreku]

Reworks don't have a good history.