Thread: Is anyone else concerned about 6.0 Summoner?

Originally Posted by CKNovel

Complex job still exists in the game.
Black mage is still there and other jobs that feels complete, such as GNB, DRG, SAM, NIN... Those are still in the game and have a nice balance between complexity and accessibility.
A dude with no fingers cleared TEA, everything is clearable by anyone given they have patience.

Do your mental gymnastic as much as you want, there is complexity in the game.
It's not trantrums or crying, it's called concerns. You are crying about players not agreeing with that direction so that everything remains accessible to you. You're rejecting every argument without logic, just going with the "muh game, raider bad "

For myself I played MCH for 2 years, I did everything I could. If there is no evolution, I don't want to play the same job for another two years. I don't wish that feeling to anyone.
Raiders and casuals alike are like "I don't want to play with you anymore." when it comes to the job. Guess what will happen in two years? Casuals will move to the next shiny things.

I couldn't care less either way about the direction jobs are going, complex or easy. I'm neither a casual nor an hardcore raider.

What I see, is that the devs decide what to do with job designs, and they obviously don't do it in a vacuum, they have metrics for that sort of stuff.

Ultimately your opinion on what job feels complete or not is moot, as is mine. Ultimately, the devs will do what the devs will do. I don't think it needs to be proven that they listen to this forum feedback, or we'd be playing a vastly different game.

No amount of thrashing around going in every thread with "I don't like this waaah" will ever change that. It is just petulant.

Originally Posted by Nyarlha

I couldn't care less either way about the direction jobs are going, complex or easy. I'm neither a casual nor an hardcore raider.

What I see, is that the devs decide what to do with job designs, and they obviously don't do it in a vacuum, they have metrics for that sort of stuff.

Ultimately your opinion on what job feels complete or not is moot, as is mine. Ultimately, the devs will do what the devs will do. I don't think it needs to be proven that they listen to this forum feedback, or we'd be playing a vastly different game.

No amount of thrashing around going in every thread with "I don't like this waaah" will ever change that. It is just petulant.

You realise your stance is that they shouldn't voice their complaints because the Devs have altered the job based on fan complaints, yes?

Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

You realise your stance is that they shouldn't voice their complaints because the Devs have altered the job based on fan complaints, yes?

Except the devs don't alter jobs specifically based on fan complaints. The play metrics they have access too have far more impact on their decisions. I mean, current DRK is a good example of that : the "feedback" here overwhelmingly wants to change it, but they didn't, they just kept it as is from 5.x because the job is still incredibly popular in game and saw level of play never seen in previous expansions. Same for MCH, the job is more popular than ever since the last revamp, like it or not.

Originally Posted by Nyarlha

Except the devs don't alter jobs specifically based on fan complaints. The play metrics they have access too have far more impact on their decisions. I mean, current DRK is a good example of that : the "feedback" here overwhelmingly wants to change it, but they didn't, they just kept it as is from 5.x because the job is still incredibly popular in game and saw level of play never seen in previous expansions. Same for MCH, the job is more popular than ever since the last revamp, like it or not.

Yes. Except that when talking about the Summoner Changes specifically, they were specifically spurred on by fan demand, not metrics. They didn't get some metric saying that people wanted flashier summons like the early entries to the series. They had people making posts and threads asking for that. And I doubt their metrics said people weren't playing Summoner, I hear it was quite popular (Largely due to the fact that it is one of the most iconic non basic classes in the series I'd wager, next to Dragoon. Basic being the ones typically unlocked first)

Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Reworks don't have a good history.

pretty subjective tbh

Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Yes. Except that when talking about the Summoner Changes specifically, they were specifically spurred on by fan demand, not metrics. They didn't get some metric saying that people wanted flashier summons like the early entries to the series. They had people making posts and threads asking for that. And I doubt their metrics said people weren't playing Summoner, I hear it was quite popular (Largely due to the fact that it is one of the most iconic non basic classes in the series I'd wager, next to Dragoon. Basic being the ones typically unlocked first)

The SMN rework is, by their own admission, because they felt they were at a dead end with the job due to how egis worked. People have been claiming for the job to be more focused on Summons since the HW DoT mage iteration. If they were truly making changes based on people "wanting flashier Summons" they would have done it way earlier. To them, this rework was necessary either way, complaints or not.

The removal of DoTs leaves the door open for a 'Plague Spreader' type caster in future, though. Like WoW's affliction lock with several DoTs and abilities that empower them or proc off them. I'd play that in a heartbeat over new SMN.

Originally Posted by Nyarlha

The SMN rework is, by their own admission, because they felt they were at a dead end with the job due to how egis worked. People have been claiming for the job to be more focused on Summons since the HW DoT mage iteration. If they were truly making changes based on people "wanting flashier Summons" they would have done it way earlier. To them, this rework was necessary either way, complaints or not.

Whether it was necessary or not, the direction they chose to go in was influenced by fan request. "Since a realm reborn, a lot of people were saying 'this is not a Summoner, this is just a DoT placer.' So we removed it."

Here's the thing. Your argument that there is no point in people expressing their frustrations because devs gonna do what devs gonna do hinges on the logic that the devs don't listen. It doesn't matter if my line about flashier summons is in error or not, whether they needed to change the class or not, whether they are using metrics or not. If the Devs can be proven to listen to the fans giving their opinions, then there is merit in giving those opinions, whether you like them or not.

Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Whether it was necessary or not, the direction they chose to go in was influenced by fan request. "Since a realm reborn, a lot of people were saying 'this is not a Summoner, this is just a DoT placer.' So we removed it."

Here's the thing. Your argument that there is no point in people expressing their frustrations because devs gonna do what devs gonna do hinges on the logic that the devs don't listen. It doesn't matter if my line about flashier summons is in error or not, whether they needed to change the class or not, whether they are using metrics or not. If the Devs can be proven to listen to the fans giving their opinions, then there is merit in giving those opinions, whether you like them or not.

If you think someone coming to complain about their main job in half a dozen of threads (even unrelated ones) as a knee jerk reaction to said job not changing "for the better" in their mind in EW will have any effect on job design, I have a bridge to sell you. Because that's exactly what some people are doing right now.

Originally Posted by Auric-Starcross

The removal of DoTs leaves the door open for a 'Plague Spreader' type caster in future, though. Like WoW's affliction lock with several DoTs and abilities that empower them or proc off them. I'd play that in a heartbeat over new SMN.

or heres something crazy
just give them to scholar + fester and bane