Broil

[Karthunk]

Do you see how that works? Dps get useful skills and healers, who barely need to heal, get redundant healing skills when functionally they would use new dps abilities more.

I keep hearing this "barely need to heal" but am not seeing it in every day practice. Incoming parse from an established group farming an encounter.

[QooEr]

I keep hearing this "barely need to heal" but am not seeing it in every day practice. Incoming parse from an established group farming an encounter.

if you dont see how little healers have to actually heal then youre not looking at the actual hp bars and damage taken. I also dont know how you can just dismiss proof of the very thing you apparently dont see.

But whatever, if you dont like the evidence that people link, how about you provide it. What content then are you doing that needs so much healing? can you provide us a log, any log, from this expansion where both healers are constantly healing AND:
- have 90+% gcd uptime
- actually use their ogcd heals more than once
- have less than 50% overheal


also a fun observation:
Neo Exdeath, a fight from the very first raid tier in stormblood: the boss dealt a total of 13,171 damage to the party.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/cnbGm...e=damage-taken

Eden's Verse: Furor (savage), a fight more than a whole expansion later: the boss dealt a total of 17,826 damage to the party
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/FAgJ2...e=damage-taken


yeah ok

[Karthunk]

if you dont see how little healers have to actually heal then youre not looking at the actual hp bars and damage taken. I also dont know how you can just dismiss proof of the very thing you apparently dont see.

But whatever, if you dont like the evidence that people link, how about you provide it. What content then are you doing that needs so much healing? can you provide us a log, any log, from this expansion where both healers are constantly healing AND:
- have 90+% gcd uptime
- actually use their ogcd heals more than once
- have less than 50% overheal


also a fun observation:
Neo Exdeath, a fight from the very first raid tier in stormblood: the boss dealt a total of 13,171 damage to the party.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/cnbGm...e=damage-taken

Eden's Verse: Furor (savage), a fight more than a whole expansion later: the boss dealt a total of 17,826 damage to the party
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/FAgJ2...e=damage-taken


yeah ok

Encounters not forcing enough mandatory healing does not equate into healers needing some kind of elaborate dos rotation.

And here is the rub again: an organized group that has an encounter on farm mode can minimize dmg by doing the encounter flawlessly because they know how to do all the mechanics properly. Join any duty finder group and all of that falls away.

[QooEr]

Encounters not forcing enough mandatory healing does not equate into healers needing some kind of elaborate dos rotation.

I never mentioned dps rotations. i asked you to provide me evidence of your claim "I keep hearing this "barely need to heal" but am not seeing it in every day practice"
You also implicitly agreed that theres very little damage in recent encounters. "Encounters not forcing enough mandatory healing[...]"

...so which one is it then?

And here is the rub again: an organized group that has an encounter on farm mode can minimize dmg by doing the encounter flawlessly because they know how to do all the mechanics properly. Join any duty finder group and all of that falls away.

Who said the logs i linked werent from PF? i can give you plenty of other logs from several fights i did on PF this expansion where the bosses dealt comparable damage to neo exdeath.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Encounters not forcing enough mandatory healing does not equate into healers needing some kind of elaborate dos rotation.

And here is the rub again: an organized group that has an encounter on farm mode can minimize dmg by doing the encounter flawlessly because they know how to do all the mechanics properly. Join any duty finder group and all of that falls away.

This again times 1000. Stop acting like everyone is playing challenger/pro league and realize that yes those in diamond and below the people not in perfect high parse static groups exist.

[WaxSw]

This again times 1000. Stop acting like everyone is playing challenger/pro league and realize that yes those in diamond and below the people not in perfect high parse static groups exist.

Imagine thinking that pressing more than 1 button in a fight were all the damage is scripted outside very tiny segments and player mistakes (if you can even recover) is challenger/pro league level of play

[Roeshel]

Imagine thinking that pressing more than 1 button in a fight were all the damage is scripted outside very tiny segments and player mistakes (if you can even recover) is challenger/pro league level of play

League of Legends is not a complicated game. Once you've played enough games, the behaviour of players becomes very predictable especially at the challenger level of play where stupidity levels should be kept at zero.

[GrimGale]

Imagine thinking that pressing more than 1 button in a fight were all the damage is scripted outside very tiny segments and player mistakes (if you can even recover) is challenger/pro league level of play

I'm a very, very average player myself. I Progged savage yes, but my numbers were never that impressive and me and my cohealer never really optimized to the max.

I still cast 130 times+ my dps spell even in the fights that supposedly required more healing. I still got bored out of my mind of Glarebroil spam. I tried AST. It did solve some of my boredom, but I was never really a fan of the aesthetics and mechanics.

The idea that only "pros" get bored playing healer is false. The idea that only the people who heavily optimize encounters find themselves stuck spamming their attack spell is false.

You can find plenty of grey parsers where the "filler" spell is used in most of the encounter.

[Sebazy]

I keep hearing this "barely need to heal" but am not seeing it in every day practice. Incoming parse from an established group farming an encounter.

My first Levi EX (E3S) clear, week 1

The last Levi EX I uploaded with my group, A few months later

I'd use a turn from a newer tier but my group typically tends to start a couple of weeks after each tier because we are slackers. For Eden's Gate the stars aligned and we actually managed to raid on week 1, we narrowly missed out on a week 1 Titan kill so I'll use Levi instead so that the results aren't being skewed by tome gear etc

Week 1 = 72 Healing GCDs vs 138 DPS GCDs over 10:44
Week x = 45 Healing GCDs vs 143 DPS GCDs over 9:06

By approximation, if the week 1 clear had have died at 9 minutes I'd have used 60 healing GCDs. A difference for sure, but it's not that huge a gap. A 'better' healer than myself would almost certainly optimise their GCDs more by week 8, but they would have also likely been much more efficient than me on their first clear as well.

The TLDR of this is that it's worth looking at some progression footage from pretty much any halfway decent healer. You'll see them nuking pretty much from the second pull onwards because fights tend to be so heavily scripted now. This isn't Extreme Primals or 24 man content, when people mess up and fail mechanics in recent Savage tiers the end result is usually either a damage down, a death or a raid wipe. From the healer's perspective, most situations will cost us a GCD. /shrug.

[Drekor]

My first Levi EX (E3S) clear, week 1

The last Levi EX I uploaded with my group, A few months later

I'd use a turn from a newer tier but my group typically tends to start a couple of weeks after each tier because we are slackers. For Eden's Gate the stars aligned and we actually managed to raid on week 1, we narrowly missed out on a week 1 Titan kill so I'll use Levi instead so that the results aren't being skewed by tome gear etc

Week 1 = 72 Healing GCDs vs 138 DPS GCDs over 10:44
Week x = 45 Healing GCDs vs 143 DPS GCDs over 9:06

By approximation, if the week 1 clear had have died at 9 minutes I'd have used 60 healing GCDs. A difference for sure, but it's not that huge a gap. A 'better' healer than myself would almost certainly optimise their GCDs more by week 8, but they would have also likely been much more efficient than me on their first clear as well.

The TLDR of this is that it's worth looking at some progression footage from pretty much any halfway decent healer. You'll see them nuking pretty much from the second pull onwards because fights tend to be so heavily scripted now. This isn't Extreme Primals or 24 man content, when people mess up and fail mechanics in recent Savage tiers the end result is usually either a damage down, a death or a raid wipe. From the healer's perspective, most situations will cost us a GCD. /shrug.

To even further emphasize the point ...WHM is probably the heaviest GCD healer. If you look at that second log and go to the SCH he casted only 11 GCD heals vs 180 GCDs for damage.