Asmongold on NSFW mods

[Awha]

Could someone on the other side of the discussion please take the time to explain to me why the community has to make up the difference of the parents responsibilities just because we happen to share the same space on the internet. It seems weird to what to place any responsibilities of ones children with random strangers on the internet, just does not seem to match together with the general notion of potential harm to children.

[NessaWyvern]

Could someone on the other side of the discussion please take the time to explain to me why the community has to make up the difference of the parents responsibilities just because we happen to share the same space on the internet.

To ignore the plight of those one might conceivably save is not wisdom -it is indolence. We must all protect which we hold most dear in the manner of our own choosing.

Anyway, this is my own opinion as an non-religious person who doesn't have any kids, I am aware that many kids have neglectful or outright abusive parents.

Mine own were, and there's nothing more soul crushing than when you're a powerless child, and there's nobody who cares, and nobody will help you because "it's not my child".
I simply wouldn't want kids to go through the kind of things I went through growing up.

And I have the personal belief that if there's anything I may be able to do, to prevent another person from being hurt, be it a child or no, then I at least must make an attempt.
If I can at least discourage some of the creeps out there, by scaring those who feel like the eyes are already on them by discussing laws and ToS, because they know what they are already doing is wrong, then I'll give it a try.

I want this game to be safer for children, and less accommodating/welcoming to potential creeps. We are the community, and we can only be a great community if enough of us try to make it as such.

And I simply love this game, I don't want it's image to be tarnished, to be seen as "the place that people go to groom, and to ERP with minors".
Just look how many people meme on male Xaela. That kind of thing sticks.

[Awha]

To ignore the plight of those one might conceivably save is not wisdom -it is indolence. We must all protect which we hold most dear in the manner of our own choosing.

Anyway, this is my own opinion as an non-religious person who doesn't have any kids, I am aware that many kids have neglectful or outright abusive parents.

Mine own were, and there's nothing more soul crushing than when you're a powerless child, and there's nobody who cares, and nobody will help you because "it's not my child".
I simply wouldn't want kids to go through the kind of things I went through growing up.

And I have the personal belief that if there's anything I may be able to do, to prevent another person from being hurt, be it a child or no, then I at least must make an attempt.
If I can at least discourage some of the creeps out there, by scaring those who feel like the eyes are already on them by discussing laws and ToS, because they know what they are already doing is wrong, then I'll give it a try.

I want this game to be safer for children, and less accommodating/welcoming to potential creeps. We are the community, and we can only be a great community if enough of us try to make it as such.

And I simply love this game, I don't want it's image to be tarnished, to be seen as "the place that people go to groom, and to ERP with minors".
Just look how many people meme on male Xaela. That kind of thing sticks.

That is the thing though at the core no one here is in favor of grooming child, and the game already has tools in place to combat such behavior using the report and ignore function. So why must the community so far as to block as you put it potential creeps? What right do we have a community to bare access of a person from our community simply based around the premise that they are a potential creep? Seems like a weird stance cause if a parent is aware of what their child is doing then they should also be aware of the individuals that play said games and do what they personally see fit to limit potential exposure. That responsibility is solely on them, and not up to the community to police others before they have even done anything harmful. Seems like a weird thing to promote. Overall I get it, but can we say it is truly wrong if SE does not enforce their own rule set?

Society couldn't function if people did not look out for one another. That is just a part of adulthood. It's silly to have a parent sit with their teen just to play FFXIV, because people want to breach TOS.

I don't take issue to pedophiles that separate themselves from children and get help. I don't really care about ERP, as long as people take real measures to exclude minors, do it in private, and don't force it on anyone. Right now many people even admit they don't take measures. A minor's judgement is not the same as an adult's. That's why they can't consent legally and why responsibility falls to the adults. I don't care about mods, as long as people are private, don't weaponize it, or use it to promote NSFW imagery of minors. But when people do these things, it becomes a major issue.

Liberty comes with responsibility. SE is more or less not acting all that much, so right now it falls to personal responsibility. If people fail in their responsibility and don't fix their act, SE will be forced to intervene and that liberty is removed, possibly through a method none of us wants.

So here you have a non-selfish answer and a selfish answer. An adult in society must act accordingly for the benefit of society. As for the selfish, if people don't stop the really bad stuff, we all get hit.

Not going to lie that largely sounds like fearmongering, the reality is if SE makes a choice that I feel negatively impacts me personally I will just go find another game to play. I do think SE also knows this is why they do not crack down on mods or such behavior. If it is in closed doors then out of sight out of mind. Though I will say responsibility of the adult ends at asking ones age, and asking for consent. I do not feel they are responsible to go any further. and going any further would start lending itself into expecting the community to enforce rules and standards that if the powers at be wanted to be enforced they would have done so themselves.

I will say this "good" parents do sit around with their child online if they are worried about who or what they will come across while playing a video game, better yet they become involved with their child while playing the game. I have an FC mate that plays the game with their kids because they know what kind of degenerates play. They make time for it even if they are tried or came from a long day at work.

[Zsolen]

Not going to lie that largely sounds like fearmongering, the reality is if SE makes a choice that I feel negatively impacts me personally I will just go find another game to play. I do think SE also knows this is why they do not crack down on mods or such behavior. If it is in closed doors then out of sight out of mind. Though I will say responsibility of the adult ends at asking ones age, and asking for consent. I do not feel they are responsible to go any further. and going any further would start lending itself into expecting the community to enforce rules and standards that if the powers at be wanted to be enforced they would have done so themselves.

Fearmongering? SE said as much. If you don't like it, that's just too bad.

Asking for someone's age is not a check on minors. It does nothing. SE doesn't have rules on ERP, because ERP itself is against TOS, so what crackdown do you expect them to do? An adult's responsibility goes far beyond "Welp... I asked their age, so not my problem if I damage a minor psychologically!"

When people don't care, even if they have no intention themselves of grooming, it leaves the door wide open for grooming. People that refer to themselves as MAPS love to integrate themselves into different things, so they can have protectors.

[Awha]

Fearmongering? SE said as much. If you don't like it, that's just too bad.

Asking for someone's age is not a check on minors. It does nothing. SE doesn't have rules on ERP, because ERP itself is against TOS, so what crackdown do you expect them to do? An adult's responsibility goes far beyond "Welp... I asked their age, so not my problem if I damage a minor psychologically!"

When people don't care, even if they have no intention themselves of grooming, it leaves the door wide open for grooming. People that refer to themselves as MAPS love to integrate themselves into different things, so they can have protectors.

That is the thing, if the law makers so to speak are not willing to enforce their rules how can one be shocked that people will not break said rules? That is the thing the adult was operating under the knowledge that they where engaging with an adult so yeah it kinda becomes a welp maybe they should not have lied about their age.

Once again you really have not provided a reason outside of a emotionally fueled as to why another person should limit their enjoyment of the game because of the potential harm it may cause to another person. If someone is worried about the harm an action may cause it is up to said person to try to avoid such things. ERP, NSFW mods are things people have to go out of their way to get deeply engaged in them. Even the random tell of someone trying to get someone to ERP does not go far enough before they can block them.

I understand the fear but that fear is on you, not so much the community so why should I care about that fear? Also SE can say a lot of things, as mentioned if they do something I feel detracts from my enjoyment welp bye FFXIV off to find a new game. I do not care so much about how they say more so how they act.

IDK a lot of this just seems like well x can lead to potential harm it is our duty as a community to limit such harm as much as possible even if it means going after people that even those in power have not felt they have done anything worthy of punishment. I get the stance it is against the ToS but sorry that is kind of a meme ToS means nothing if you do not enforce it.

[Zsolen]

That is the thing, if the law makers so to speak are not willing to enforce their rules how can one be shocked that people will not break said rules? That is the thing the adult was operating under the knowledge that they where engaging with an adult so yeah it kinda becomes a welp maybe they should not have lied about their age.

Once again you really have not provided a reason outside of a emotionally fueled as to why another person should limit their enjoyment of the game because of the potential harm it may cause to another person. If someone is worried about the harm an action may cause it is up to said person to try to avoid such things. ERP, NSFW mods are things people have to go out of their way to get deeply engaged in them. Even the random tell of someone trying to get someone to ERP does not go far enough before they can block them.

I understand the fear but that fear is on you, not so much the community so why should I care about that fear? Also SE can say a lot of things, as mentioned if they do something I feel detracts from my enjoyment welp bye FFXIV off to find a new game. I do not care so much about how they say more so how they act.

IDK a lot of this just seems like well x can lead to potential harm it is our duty as a community to limit such harm as much as possible even if it means going after people that even those in power have not felt they have done anything worthy of punishment. I get the stance it is against the ToS but sorry that is kind of a meme ToS means nothing if you do not enforce it.

Another digusting and heartless reaction. They're teens. They don't understand what they are getting into. They just think they do.

Honestly, maybe you should not play this game then, if the idea upsets you. It will likely happen, due to people like you wanting to defend grooming.

[Awha]

Another digusting and heartless reaction. They're teens. They don't understand what they are getting into. They just think they do.

Honestly, maybe you should not play this game then, if the idea upsets you. It will likely happen, due to people like you wanting to defend grooming.

How does my stance defend grooming? Can we say it is grooming if an adult was under the impression and knowledge that the person they were interacting with was a minor due to them telling them they were not a minor?

Clearly the adult did not have the intent the groom said individual. Now if the adult kept at it even after finding out they were a minor that is a different story. Though realistically what can SE do to prevent such situations from happening? It will always be reactive the action happens they will need to report said action to SE and possibly local authorities. What else does anyone expect a company and a community to do? Screen people on the mod discord ask for proof of age? That will not work since it is easy to get a fake ID. Block all mods? Still would not work cause trust me people will find work arounds. Even getting rid of all the NSFW hinted PF groups would not work they would simply just operate through discord and will just post discord links in PF.

Also please do not take what I am saying as defending the intentional seeking of engagement with minors. What I am saying though is a proactive approach to such things is not possible for a community to do. I will say yes if the potential harm to children does bother someone then maybe this is not the right game / community for them.

Though I will willing to admit that my view is rather dark considered I do not feel much sympathy or share much empathy for so it is hard for me to really understand exactly what you are feeling or a potential victim would be feeling.

[MintnHoney]

due to people like you wanting to defend grooming.

He's not anywhere near defending grooming or pedophilia.
But by all means, continue fighting tooth and nail for a cause that no one in this thread is preventing you or anyone else from championing. If you want to defend the children and spend your days worrying about them, stalking everyone until you can determine their A/S/L to make sure they're not too young and further determine, with your likely limited expertise, whether or not they're being groomed and/or gaslit, then feel free.

But not everyone is going to take up the mantle, and not everyone's going to appreciate that style of policing.

Bottom line: if you feel like someone is doing something that they shouldn't be doing, report it. If the GMs determine that they are, in fact, doing it, and that it is something that they shouldn't be doing, then they'll take necessary steps to take care of the situation. Most likely, however, if you can't prove someone's doing something, or if what you think they're doing is not actually being done, or if they determine that what they are doing is, in fact, not against the rules, then likely nothing will happen to them.
If you take matters "into your own hands," however, then don't be surprised if you're met with resistance, and don't be surprised if nothing meaningful actually happens. Even moreso if you're not actually going to do it yourself and are waiting for everyone else to do it for you.

Until and unless you can actually prove someone is doing the thing you're saying is happening, and especially until someone does something that specifically aims to maliciously harm the game and/or it's players, there's no cause to do something specifically about the issue that isn't already being done by a majority of players, both in and out of the community you're trying to generally accuse.

[Zsolen]

Could someone on the other side of the discussion please take the time to explain to me why the community has to make up the difference of the parents responsibilities just because we happen to share the same space on the internet. It seems weird to what to place any responsibilities of ones children with random strangers on the internet, just does not seem to match together with the general notion of potential harm to children.

Society couldn't function if people did not look out for one another. That is just a part of adulthood. It's silly to have a parent sit with their teen just to play FFXIV, because people want to breach TOS.

I don't take issue to pedophiles that separate themselves from children and get help. I don't really care about ERP, as long as people take real measures to exclude minors, do it in private, and don't force it on anyone. Right now many people even admit they don't take measures. A minor's judgement is not the same as an adult's. That's why they can't consent legally and why responsibility falls to the adults. I don't care about mods, as long as people are private, don't weaponize it, or use it to promote NSFW imagery of minors. But when people do these things, it becomes a major issue.

Liberty comes with responsibility. SE is more or less not acting all that much, so right now it falls to personal responsibility. If people fail in their responsibility and don't fix their act, SE will be forced to intervene and that liberty is removed, possibly through a method none of us wants.

So here you have a non-selfish answer and a selfish answer. An adult in society must act accordingly for the benefit of society. As for the selfish, if people don't stop the really bad stuff, we all get hit.

[Goji1639]

Society couldn't function if people did not look out for one another. That is just a part of adulthood. It's silly to have a parent sit with their teen just to play FFXIV, because people want to breach TOS.

It's like because you want the internet to be some safe space for kids you're encouraging parents to behave like it actually is one. It's not; OF COURSE parents should be sitting with and monitoring their kids interactions on FFXIV if they want to let their kids play it. If you can't do that then DON'T let your kids online under any circumstances.

"B-b-b-but the ToS" is just an excuse to be lazy. No parent in their right mind is going to assume THAT's going to provide reasonable protection from millions of random adults. Even if SE did try to enforce the ToS by having the game conduct questionably legal scans of their customers client PCs, those can be worked around. There's literally no stopping this kind of thing.

"I'm not going to watch my kid; everyone else just needs to behave and watch him for me" is nonsense. Don't let your kids out in public if you don't plan to supervise them, and the internet is public.