Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
Except you're relying on conflation. The problems most people have with M+, for instance, are rarely anything core to M+. It's keys. It's the vault. It's the drop rates. It's the reward scaling. All things exterior to the gameplay itself.

And it's not that no one ever talks about the idea of progressive or player-chosen or scaling difficult in dungeons. I have. Forte has. More than a dozen threads by now have. The problem is that the conversation is so frequently derailed by those who go out of their way to ignore the contexts of the requests and harp on already-known problems external to other iterations of the system in question. At this point, a quarter of all avenues likely ever to be available to an MMORPG can be condemned merely by half-understood association to WoW. It's stupidly reductionist.
I don't want to give off the wrong idea, I myself liked it when the game was harder. I LOVED ninja and monk when they had openers that took and made me want to train like I was training for Evo for a Street Fighter. But I've watched countless things get nerfed so bad it's not even depressing anymore. I dunno if I want even the idea of Mplus if I'm honest. I'd rather have just a true expert. Like a 5 man dungeon or something that's got an extreme setting. No sliding scale. Just a new context where we do 5 man or 7 man content that's ONLY extreme setting for dungeons. I don't want dungeons to have easy,hard settings... I think it'll be better if we just had a new mode for it and ONLY it.

That way the people who can't beat story bosses can keep their stuff and we can get something for us. like how Ultimate , savage, extremes are already are.