Endwalker Sch Question

[Hatstand]

I disagree here. When dps is the main worthwhile metric in this game it means that if one of the healers had a significant edge in dps it will be far and away the best option. SCH was dealing significantly more damage then AST and SCH in that era.

I think you’ve misunderstood my point. My point was not that it is not an issue if one healer does more damage than the others. While healing is the main job of a healer, it’s a pass or fail job, so dps numbers is what will differentiate adequate healers. My point was that you can change how well a healer performs at dps by changing the potencies of their skills, rather than changing the function or number of skills. (Although it’s true that here you can only tune for best case, average case, or worst case, which means a healer with difficult dps may end up doing worse dps on average than a healer with easy dps, due to a smaller number of players getting it right. I’d consider that to be worth it to have a healer with something interesting to do in downtime).

If you can find a way of making healers fun for players like me, who enjoy trying to eke that little bit more out of their kit, (in their downtime as well as their uptime) without making them complex in a way that cause worse players to make mistakes, then go for it. But I don’t accept the argument that healers can’t be complex, fun, and punishing to those who make mistakes. BLM is also punishing to those who mess up, and the group is will die because a BLM messed up and the group failed a dps check just as they will if the healer was too caught up in dpsing to push their healer buttons. No one is saying that BLM needs to be simplified so that bad BLM players don’t cause problems for their groups.

[Brandedblade]

I think you’ve misunderstood my point. My point was not that it is not an issue if one healer does more damage than the others. While healing is the main job of a healer, it’s a pass or fail job, so dps numbers is what will differentiate adequate healers. My point was that you can change how well a healer performs at dps by changing the potencies of their skills, rather than changing the function or number of skills. (Although it’s true that here you can only tune for best case, average case, or worst case, which means a healer with difficult dps may end up doing worse dps on average than a healer with easy dps, due to a smaller number of players getting it right. I’d consider that to be worth it to have a healer with something interesting to do in downtime).

If you can find a way of making healers fun for players like me, who enjoy trying to eke that little bit more out of their kit, (in their downtime as well as their uptime) without making them complex in a way that cause worse players to make mistakes, then go for it. But I don’t accept the argument that healers can’t be complex, fun, and punishing to those who make mistakes. BLM is also punishing to those who mess up, and the group is will die because a BLM messed up and the group failed a dps check just as they will if the healer was too caught up in dpsing to push their healer buttons. No one is saying that BLM needs to be simplified so that bad BLM players don’t cause problems for their groups.

My thought it this. I do not consider juggling 5 different timers to be a decent way of creating flow, its needlessly complicated. I would rather see the design of a class be an ebb and flow type of thing. Like for scholar. I find the thought of juggling 5-6 dots needlessly complicated when you could create a more interesting gameplay loop in fewer buttons. I'd rather focus on creating something like that then cry about the good old days. I personally would rather see 1-2 dots with the dots feeding into something rewarding when you maintain them, like a more robust version of the fae guage system where you create a loop between your healing and dps, with measures in place to lean more towards one end without completely screwing over the other.

[Hatstand]

My thought it this. I do not consider juggling 5 different timers to be a decent way of creating flow, its needlessly complicated. I would rather see the design of a class be an ebb and flow type of thing. Like for scholar. I find the thought of juggling 5-6 dots needlessly complicated when you could create a more interesting gameplay loop in fewer buttons. I'd rather focus on creating something like that then cry about the good old days. I personally would rather see 1-2 dots with the dots feeding into something rewarding when you maintain them, like a more robust version of the fae guage system where you create a loop between your healing and dps, with measures in place to lean more towards one end without completely screwing over the other.

You wouldn’t hear me complaining about something new but interesting, either. It just seems wrong to throw away a fun system and replace it with nothing. Ultimately what is needed is a group of healer mains on the dev team who are given authority on healer design and who properly play test new healer designs. I can’t believe any healer main would sign off on the changes that we got.

[Semirhage]

My thought it this. I do not consider juggling 5 different timers to be a decent way of creating flow, its needlessly complicated. I would rather see the design of a class be an ebb and flow type of thing. Like for scholar. I find the thought of juggling 5-6 dots needlessly complicated when you could create a more interesting gameplay loop in fewer buttons. I'd rather focus on creating something like that then cry about the good old days. I personally would rather see 1-2 dots with the dots feeding into something rewarding when you maintain them, like a more robust version of the fae guage system where you create a loop between your healing and dps, with measures in place to lean more towards one end without completely screwing over the other.

I agree that noninteractive dots aren't the way to go. They're not great design if you don't do anything with them. But at the same time, I'd take even boring noninteractive dots over what's possibly the worst design they've come up with yet: casting one single spell a bajillion times over and over again.

[IceBlueNinja]

There really is a big dif you can tell in how less played healers are atm cause 70% of rollo tend to need em around 29 on tank and 1% dps where dps only ever seem to show for alliance. Bet even blue mage is used more for running old things over healers

[GrimGale]

WoW's Shaman has one of the simplest interactions which is rather satisfying to pull off:

Flame Shock dots can proc Lava Burst.

Lava Burst is a very slow cast, high resource spell that deals a lot of damage. It's slow cast and MP cost make it inefficient to use by defaul. But Flame Shock's tick damage ( A spell rather similar to WHM's Dia, with upfront damage and a DoT) has a chance to make Lava Burst instant. Not only that, Lava Burst will always cause a critical strike on a target suffering from Flame Shock's dot.

It's such a simple interaction and yet it gives enough variability to give breaks to Shaman's allways be casting healing gameplay.

[IceBlueNinja]

WoW's Shaman has one of the simplest interactions which is rather satisfying to pull off:

Flame Shock dots can proc Lava Burst.

Lava Burst is a very slow cast, high resource spell that deals a lot of damage. It's slow cast and MP cost make it inefficient to use by defaul. But Flame Shock's tick damage ( A spell rather similar to WHM's Dia, with upfront damage and a DoT) has a chance to make Lava Burst instant. Not only that, Lava Burst will always cause a critical strike on a target suffering from Flame Shock's dot.

It's such a simple interaction and yet it gives enough variability to give breaks to Shaman's allways be casting healing gameplay.

yeah even though some games is abit like 14 current 1 dot 1 dps spells they still does it in a way to make it feel of some use haha like my old turn base mmo a few healer merc has a dot but also a special effect like enemies taking more damage off staff type magics/ reduce enemies range attacks and plenty to go from also the hero your main tends to have more abilities vs the merc counter parts. healer mains had so much to choose from and can be build to be hybrid or mostly focus to heal or be a very power damage healer ever since the many mass changes to the game. flame blow which did immense damage and hesvy dot use to be a 4 turn wait aftwr now with new paassives they can spam it it every 2 turn lmao

[NobleWinter]

WoW's Shaman has one of the simplest interactions which is rather satisfying to pull off:

Flame Shock dots can proc Lava Burst.

Lava Burst is a very slow cast, high resource spell that deals a lot of damage. It's slow cast and MP cost make it inefficient to use by defaul. But Flame Shock's tick damage ( A spell rather similar to WHM's Dia, with upfront damage and a DoT) has a chance to make Lava Burst instant. Not only that, Lava Burst will always cause a critical strike on a target suffering from Flame Shock's dot.

It's such a simple interaction and yet it gives enough variability to give breaks to Shaman's allways be casting healing gameplay.

Imagine if WHM Aero 2 proc'd the old Aero 3 in the same way. Im excited just thinking about it.

[Truen]

5.0 has been the worst, most boring, absolutely disappointing iteration of healing I've ever seen, in any game. I absolutely hate what they did to the SCH job, I'm still after all this time quite bitter about it and desperate for news they're going to return some of what they took away when Endwalkers releases. If they don't I just don't imagine I'll play long after the expansion releases. I'm so damn sick of spamming 1 DD spell endlessly.