Multi-tank busters should apply to the main tank in an alliance instead of a DPS

[Naoki34]

but sometimes a tank dies and I feel it should be the responsability of the other tanks to use their CDs to mitigate a double damage buster if anything it doesn't dumb down the experience but makes CD management even more important for tanks in alliance raids and it will make invulns more important to save incase a tank on another party dies

keeping it as it is means now means the other tanks don't have to take any responsability and won't acknowledge that they are getting members killed

Because you think it's better to make the game even more casual?

For the number of times I have tanked in alliance raid, I take almost no damage even with tank buster, as long as you know how to anticipate and the healers are not sleeping, with a little bit of stuff, even with the two dead healers, you can still hold on for a good while, until the next tank buster, if the healers of the other groups are not sleeping too.

Well timed, a defensive tank CD + mitigation that all healers have, you don't take more than 20% of your Max HP.
Also, there are no mechanics to switch between tanks in Raid Alliance. So don't try to make it even easier.

The raid alliance is relatively easy content. Stop trying to change the game, but try to progress, learn to play...

[Neihel]

it is not an absolute requirement to turn your stance on as an OT in Allianceso what?

it is a requirement to fill a role that you queue as unless you're okay with healers that do not heal

Because you think it's better to make the game even more casual?

For the number of times I have tanked in alliance raid, I take almost no damage even with tank buster, as long as you know how to anticipate and the healers are not sleeping, with a little bit of stuff, even with the two dead healers, you can still hold on for a good while, until the next tank buster, if the healers of the other groups are not sleeping too.

Well timed, a defensive tank CD + mitigation that all healers have, you don't take more than 20% of your Max HP.
Also, there are no mechanics to switch between tanks in Raid Alliance. So don't try to make it even easier.

The raid alliance is relatively easy content. Stop trying to change the game, but try to progress, learn to play...

you didn't even the thread at all, nobody said anything about making the game easier for tanks, I am suggesting that tanks should be more difficult as a role
I want that 20% to be a 40% if another tank in a party is dead instead of just deleting a random member in the alliance
the game can even display an indicator over the tank buster marker with the the number 2 or a + sign to indicate that one of the OTs are dead so you need stronger CDs

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

it is a requirement to fill a role that you queue as unless you're okay with healers that do not heal

Yea it's called picking up adds when they spawn and press the buttons that make the incoming damage less ouchie at the proper times. Then keep on top of rotation.

As long as the healers can weave a oGCD heal my way once in a while I should be fine, most of the Alliance raids don't even hurt that much tbh.

[ArianeEwah]

it is a requirement to fill a role that you queue as unless you're okay with healers that do not heal

Are you really a veteran tank? Because what you just wrote makes no sense.

Your job as tank is soak and mitigate damage for the party, but not to start aggro fights with other tanks.
If aggro is the first thing you want, then why do you not have 2 tanks in raids with tank stance, playing spin to win with the boss?
Because you have ONE main tank, not 2, nor 3.

If aggro is required to soak damage, then yes, use your tank stance. But if there already is a MT in an alliance raid, tank stance is not an absolute requirement

@aodhan_ofinnegain:

[Neihel]

Yea it's called picking up adds when they spawn and press the buttons that make the incoming damage less ouchie at the proper times. Then keep on top of rotation.

when you're off tank you should be number 1 on your party's aggro list on bosses so if the main tank dies you're next in line to tank the fight instead of a dps dying

Your job as tank is soak and mitigate damage for the party, but not to start aggro fights with other tanks.

we literally have a skill called shirk which you can use on any low emnity party member in an alliance, and you can wait for your opener/burst to be done before turning on your stance just don't burst with tank stance on as an OT
aggro management is part of the tank role, if you can't manage your own aggro and start aggro fights that's your fault

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

when you're off tank you should be number 1 on your party's aggro list on bosses so if the main tank dies you're next in line to tank the fight instead of a dps dying

you know it takes 1 oGCD weave window, to turn on stance and provoke right, literally takes 2 seconds.

[Naoki34]

it is a requirement to fill a role that you queue as unless you're okay with healers that do not heal



you didn't even the thread at all, nobody said anything about making the game easier for tanks, I am suggesting that tanks should be more difficult as a role
I want that 20% to be a 40% if another tank in a party is dead instead of just deleting a random member in the alliance
the game can even display an indicator over the tank buster marker with the the number 2 or a + sign to indicate that one of the OTs are dead so you need stronger CDs

It's okay if you don't understand what you're being told.

[Neihel]

It's okay if you don't understand what I'm saying.

I don't have to when it's unrelated to the topic, I am not asking for busters to have their damage reduced like what you think

[Shurrikhan]

If you die it's the fault of the other tanks that did not use tank stances to stay second on the enmity list, which is supposed to be their job.

Enmity is easy enough as it is, let's not make it even more dumb.

Okay, so at present, enmity is a non-mechanic beyond remembering to turn it on and, maybe, if you are the most geared tank in an Alliance Raid yet do not actually want to tank (for... reasons?) turning it off for just the first 30 seconds or so of a pull (though... even that you could have just dealt with via Shirk alongside their Provoke).

So, turning a stance on, and maybe leaving it off for a bit when you don't want to tank despite being a (superiorly geared) tank... is the sum of mechanical affordances here that come from not having tank stance as a trait. You get to turn it on, and maybe sometimes off; that's it.

Now let's consider what mechanical complexity potentially goes to waste by not having tank stance as a trait, or for tankbusters to just first attempt to target tanks regardless of enmity. Tankbusters are meant, and often need, to be mitigated. Tanks have mitigation. A pretty natural pairing there, if you're looking for mechanic affordances. Except, the stance-less tank is not going to be highest enmity in their party, and therefore will not get the tankbuster. So there's no option for active mitigation. That mechanical affordance is wasted, replaced, at most, by Swiftcast-Raise after the DPS is hit for 140+% of their health pool.

It's a simple A-B affair. Is A (your ability to turn tank stance on and off, and/or that mattering in regard to tankbusters) worth also keeping B (tanks missing the opportunity to use tank skills on tankbusters, replacing tank mechanics with "How quickly can our highest DPS be raised back up from his recent case of 'been murdered'")?

I would say no, personally. It seems fine to have whatever tankbuster mechanics may target the player with highest enmity instead of necessarily targeting the party's tank to just... target the tank regardless.

[Iscah]

you mean the mechanics that are intended for the tank, I should do them as a monk?

Not "the mechanics", a specific mechanic that you may unexpectedly get marked for if the tank is dead.

If you get that marker, it is now your job as the person with the marker to stand clear of the party.

I don't know why people are even talking about enmity in regard to this mechanic if it's going to target the tank regardless of their status, as long as they are alive. If they're dead, it doesn't matter how much enmity they previously had. Neither will Diversion stop the mechanic from passing to a non-tank member of the party, whether it's you or not.

Trying to pass it around would only sow more chaos at a party scale, even if it helps you individually.