Multi-tank busters should apply to the main tank in an alliance instead of a DPS

[ArianeEwah]

and the devs can program the fights to split the buster from the dead tank to the other 2 tanks if they wanted to that's what the thread is suggesting

I know what you mean, but I still disagree. And I've hoped I explained why, but I will try again:

Please keep in mind that not every tank has high gear, so every tank buster can hurt a ton. They are just doing their thing, so don't expect anything that requires high awareness.
Please keep in mind that not every healer in alliance raids are aware of other parties tanks, mechanics/movement etc., or some are even too fixed on dmg.
This is just a disclaimer, as this is my general experience in alliance raids, so yours might differ.

The most important role in alliance raids is healer, followed by tank, at last place dps.
Let's say we have following situation: (which in my experience is quite common during "content drought", or first week)
Your party's tank is down (for whatever reason, let's call them captain vul stacks), right after some mechanic happens that requires movement, and aoe dmg is incoming. Other party's (and your own) healers are either occupied (rezzing peeps etc.) or dead. 3 tank busters go out, but instead of targeting someone from your party, the 3rd and last tank buster hit the MT, also - just as you suggested. Our MT does not have invul ready, so they are using at least one mitigation CD.
This brings up some questions:
Is the MT aware that one tank is missing and 1-2 CD are not enough?
Is the other (last) tank going to survive the tank buster plus auto hit while the healers are occupied?
And lastly: is the boss going rampage through the alliance?

In my experience this is most likely to happen. This would not happen as long as the last tank buster hits some random dps.
Yes, it sucks, especially when you are top dps. But it's less likely to result in a wipe than with your suggestion implemented.

Alliance raids are what you would call "afk/braindead content". Neither you nor me can expect others looking further than their own shadows. I wish it would be different, but that's just how it is.

[Neihel]

stop trying to make DPS even more braindead then it already is by pushing mechanics off you're shoulders onto the tanks....they have enough to deal with keeping your selfish ass alive.

you mean the mechanics that are intended for the tank, I should do them as a monk?

off tanks are brain dead as they are right now with them literally not doing anything ijn alliance raids but go sight seeing with their stances off
I literally got killed yesterday by these hard working tanks letting me keep aggro on a 24 man boss for 8 seconds

I literally play tank and have mostly played tank in most content including savage since heavensward, so you can't say I don't know how it works

on E12S the tanks can take the vuln stacks at the last phase without instantly dying but if a DPS did that they would die instantly to the same mechanic but this is a thread about alliance raids so let's not talk about savage

[Sqwall]

The importance of roles (in general) goes like this: healers -> tanks -> dps
While dps and healers can hold without tanks for a little while, they wouldn't survive busters.
Without a healer, everyone will die sooner or later, so they are essential for the survival of the party.
Unless there is a hard dps check, the dps role takes the lowest priority.

There is no priority of importance when a DPS/Healer get's freaking deleted by a tank buster and I can survive with 2/3rd of my HP still in tacked.

The priority shifts...constantly.....

Tank busters go out....tanks are high importance...keep them alive.
Group AOE that targets healers....healers are high importance.
DPS need to bait ground AOE....DPS are important.

There is no order of importance of roles...tanks need healers and DPS, Healers need tanks to soak damage, DPS need to crush that enrage timer.

I like to look at the end game content design like this:

DPS = a time limit mechanic...all DPS like to race the clock before enrage.

Healers = The Sims game method....which bar is the lowest...I must fill that bar. Everything is filled...I should DPS.

Tanks = Paper, Rock, Scissors. Tank buster is rock....Vengeance is paper, I win! Stack marker is Scissors...Shake it off is rock, I win again.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

that is false information, ALL 3 tanks need to have their stance active after the tanks are done with their opener
how are you a lvl 80 warrior main and not know this?

I'll second that this is completely rubbish, I've often been an OT in alliance without stance and still taken the intended simultaneous tankbuster while a couple DPS were ahead of me on the aggro list.

[Neihel]

I'll second that this is completely rubbish, I've often been an OT in alliance without stance and still taken the intended simultaneous tankbuster while a couple DPS were ahead of me on the aggro list.

I'm aware that the busters would automatically go on a tank but OTs should always have tank stance on during alliance raids the poster said OTs don't need stances on at all

The idea is you you do your tank opener with the stance off and after the opener you can freely activate tank stance, if you somehow still end up stealing aggro it means the MT wasn't outputting enough damage to keep up with you

[ArianeEwah]

There is no priority of importance [...]

What I meant is that in general (average player yada yada) healers are most important, followed by tanks.

Is the tank dead? -> healer(s) can rez them, dps have to soak some damage until then, but they will probaly die. If our healer has aggro, they will most likely die, too. Can cause a wipe.

Dps is dead? -> Tank tanks, healers rez. The tank will most likely survive. The lowest risk to wipe.

Healer dead? -> (With a few exceptions) Party will probably wipe.

This is just the general census. There are cases with a (rez) mage, PLD with Clemency, WAR with NF, GNB with Aurora etc. where those "rules" don't apply. It just shows how "important" a certain role can be, measured on the probability to wipe the party/alliance.

That also means that - unless there is a hard dps check - dps should become the scapegoat incase sh*t hits the fan instead of the more important roles.

[Sqwall]

you mean the mechanics that are intended for the tank, I should do them as a monk?

off tanks are brain dead as they are right now with them literally not doing anything ijn alliance raids but go sight seeing with their stances off
I literally got killed yesterday by these hard working tanks letting me keep aggro on a 24 man boss for 8 seconds

I literally play tank and have mostly played tank in most content including savage since heavensward, so you can't say I don't know how it works

on E12S the tanks can take the vuln stacks at the last phase without instantly dying but if a DPS did that they would die instantly to the same mechanic but this is a thread about alliance raids so let's not talk about savage

Ok your completely missing the point here...

As you said you are a veteran tank...but you don't understand when you get a tank buster as a DPS....when the tank is dead? You believe it should go to another tank? So now it's not you're problem...but the party 50 yards away....now it's their problem? Got it!

You're literally complaining about being killed by "these braindead tanks" when you yourself have tanked savage....and don't say anything about their stance being off? Got it!

I will say this again.... a good tank will compliment the group by having their stance on and manage agro...and soaking as much damage as possible. Do my rotation is my #1 goal...#2 is stay alive. If I do both of those....tanking is STUPID ez

No Diversion needed...

You're complaining because you had a bad tank...did you even tell them their stance was off?

[Ultimatecalibur]

if a tank in an alliance dies the buster should apply a 2nd time to whoever is MT, because they have the utility to survive a 2nd buster, it's been horrible playing the nier raids as a DPS and getting the buster when your party's tank dies

No. If things worked like that you would justify 1 or 2 tank/6 Healer/16 or 17 dps compositions and party targeting mechanics prevent other party's from being punished for another party messing up.

I'll second that this is completely rubbish, I've often been an OT in alliance without stance and still taken the intended simultaneous tankbuster while a couple DPS were ahead of me on the aggro list.

Different alliance fights have different targeting rules for their tankbusters, healerbusters and dpsbusters. Some fights have single target busters that target the person with the highest enmity while others have mutlitarget busters that prioritize the tank in each party. You can usually tell the difference based on how the fight is set up.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I'm aware that the busters would automatically go on a tank but OTs should always have tank stance on during alliance raids the poster said OTs don't need stances on at all

The idea is you you do your tank opener with the stance off and after the opener you can freely activate tank stance, if you somehow still end up stealing aggro it means the MT wasn't outputting enough damage to keep up with you

I mean you didn't state otherwise initially, and it is not an absolute requirement to turn your stance on as an OT in Alliance unless it's absolutely needed (adds), if tank goes down, and neither tank is second in threat you might get an auto attack before another tank takes over...so what?

In the event of a tank buster coming up just after your party's tank dies and you get targetted... tough is what it is, wait for a raise and get on with it.

Just feels you're venting out your salt at a bad experience in an Alliance raid, but tbh, Alliance raid is never been some high end content, it's always been a story/ catch up content.

Different alliance fights have different targeting rules for their tankbusters, healerbusters and dpsbusters. Some fights have single target busters that target the person with the highest enmity while others have mutlitarget busters that prioritize the tank in each party. You can usually tell the difference based on how the fight is set up.

No Alliance raid has an aggro mechanic outside of MT taking auto attacks or adds, unless the tanks are dead before simultaneous tankbusters, then it will target first threat I guess in the dead tanks party.

[Shin96]

"I didn't like what happened in an Alliance raid so change the game for me, please."