Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

[ReynTime]

Except that you did go into it. Mythic+ timed content in FFXIV would make me quit not just XIV but MMO's in general. Please never M+.

Imagine quitting a genre over a completely optional challenge content.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

Imagine quitting a genre over a completely optional challenge content.

Even if those dungeons were literally optional, they would not feel that way. At the very least keep them off of any sort of progression path to keep them from feeling so mandatory. Even then, I don't want it, because it would take away resources from development of other things.

The thought of XIV players not realizing just how good they've got it and wanting to WoWify the game is horrifying.

[ForteNightshade]

Even if those dungeons were literally optional, they would not feel that way. At the very least keep them off of any sort of progression path to keep them from feeling so mandatory. Even then, I don't want it, because it would take away resources from development of other things.

The thought of XIV players not realizing just how good they've got it and wanting to WoWify the game is horrifying.

You may have it good, however there are plenty of us bored with the current trend of content. I literally don't touch Expert Roulette because I'm just... tired of the same linear corridor with fodder that can't possibly hurt me. That and I absolutely despise Matoya's Relict. I'd love something akin to Mythic+ or genuinely challenging dungeons because it gives me more content to do. None of that is to say I dislike casual stuff. Quite the contrary, in fact. But I also like content that will actually threatening. Unfortunately, said content is quite limited.

[TaleraRistain]

You may have it good, however there are plenty of us bored with the current trend of content. I literally don't touch Expert Roulette because I'm just... tired of the same linear corridor with fodder that can't possibly hurt me. That and I absolutely despise Matoya's Relict. I'd love something akin to Mythic+ or genuinely challenging dungeons because it gives me more content to do. None of that is to say I dislike casual stuff. Quite the contrary, in fact. But I also like content that will actually threatening. Unfortunately, said content is quite limited.

Be truthful, though. Will you come to a point where you're completely happy with what you have, or will you always want more? A common thread I see in those who focus only on whether content is challenging to them is that they are never satisfied. They always want more content. I mean, you're displaying that just in this comment. How can any developer ever keep up with that? XIV has something for everyone. But that also means that we're all limited in what will appeal to us and we may need to come to a point where we're satisfied with our piece of the pie.

[ForteNightshade]

Be truthful, though. Will you come to a point where you're completely happy with what you have, or will you always want more? A common thread I see in those who focus only on whether content is challenging to them is that they are never satisfied. They always want more content. I mean, you're displaying that just in this comment. How can any developer ever keep up with that? XIV has something for everyone. But that also means that we're all limited in what will appeal to us and we may need to come to a point where we're satisfied with our piece of the pie.

Truthfully, yes. At least in a realistic sense. I used to be satisfied, at least more so than I am now, but that was because I hadn't exhausted a good chunk of the content. Which is part of the problem. The sheer lack of longevity most content has means long time players will inevitably run out even if they dabble in a variety of things. You're also assuming I only do challenging content. Which isn't the case. There just... isn't enough to do in a given patch. Case in point, I found myself actually enjoying Blue Mage. Too bad its last update was in 5.45, didn't even come with a mount achievement this time around and likely won't see another update until 6.15 at the absolute earliest. That will be over a year of nothing. Now yes, Covid plays a factor in this... except Blue Mage has routinely only been updated every ten months. In other words, it's side content that while neat, doesn't take more than a couple weeks to complete if you're intentionally pacing yourself and sees updates only annually.

And most content suffers from this precise problem. So in my case, adding Mythic+ with some sense of continual longevity in frequently updated achievements, rewards and etc would help satisfy me. One of my major criticisms of Shadowbringers is so much content focused on the roleplay aspect that it often felt barren. I'm not suggesting that stuff be taken away from those who enjoy it, however I'm certainly going to voice my criticism when I have so little to do.

[kaynide]

Truthfully, yes. At least in a realistic sense. I used to be satisfied, at least more so than I am now, but that was because I hadn't exhausted a good chunk of the content. Which is part of the problem. The sheer lack of longevity most content has means long time players will inevitably run out even if they dabble in a variety of things. You're also assuming I only do challenging content. Which isn't the case. There just... isn't enough to do in a given patch. Case in point, I found myself actually enjoying Blue Mage. Too bad its last update was in 5.45, didn't even come with a mount achievement this time around and likely won't see another update until 6.15 at the absolute earliest. That will be over a year of nothing. Now yes, Covid plays a factor in this... except Blue Mage has routinely only been updated every ten months. In other words, it's side content that while neat, doesn't take more than a couple weeks to complete if you're intentionally pacing yourself and sees updates only annually.

And most content suffers from this precise problem. So in my case, adding Mythic+ with some sense of continual longevity in frequently updated achievements, rewards and etc would help satisfy me. One of my major criticisms of Shadowbringers is so much content focused on the roleplay aspect that it often felt barren. I'm not suggesting that stuff be taken away from those who enjoy it, however I'm certainly going to voice my criticism when I have so little to do.

I would say that the devs are on record saying they do not intend to occupy all of your potential gaming time and that, should the content not be enough for you from patch to patch, you should take a break and try other games that scratch whatever itch you need. Not saying you need to unsubscribe or quit or whatever.

Personally, everything I have is at cap, with exception of getting all of Blu done.. so I just log in and do my daily retainer money grab, chat for a few before I load up whatever other game I’m playing. Currently finished the Ori series and recommend it, especially on hard mode!

In my wife’s case, she doesn’t even touch the game outside of hanging with friends for months at a time, so that when she does find time between her dramas/Netflix, she has a good chunk of content to do.

…that said, I would love to see more things to do outside of the standard loop. Like legit engaging mini games or more interesting PvP maps or game modes.

[ForteNightshade]

I would say that the devs are on record saying they do not intend to occupy all of your potential gaming time and that, should the content not be enough for you from patch to patch, you should take a break and try other games that scratch whatever itch you need. Not saying you need to unsubscribe or quit or whatever.

Personally, everything I have is at cap, with exception of getting all of Blu done.. so I just log in and do my daily retainer money grab, chat for a few before I load up whatever other game I’m playing. Currently finished the Ori series and recommend it, especially on hard mode!

In my wife’s case, she doesn’t even touch the game outside of hanging with friends for months at a time, so that when she does find time between her dramas/Netflix, she has a good chunk of content to do.

…that said, I would love to see more things to do outside of the standard loop. Like legit engaging mini games or more interesting PvP maps or game modes.

Which would be fine... if I wasn't done with content within a week or two. In fact, I did take a break throughout Verse after clearing the tier; logging in only to cap and doing literally nothing else. When I came back, I finished up all of 5.3's content by the weekend. So even with a break, there just wasn't enough. The problem is longevity. Content simply doesn't have a long enough life cycle unless you play very sparingly.

And Drakonic brings up the other problem. I can't unsub without losing my house. So the whole "take a break" aspect is a nice PR spin but not exactly feasible.

[Illmaeran]

The thought of XIV players not realizing just how good they've got it and wanting to WoWify the game is horrifying.

Quoted for emphasis. WoW already exists; turning XIV into the [current version of] it would be a tragedy to the many, many, many of us for whom this game is nearly perfect in both style and substance.

[Shurrikhan]

Imagine quitting a genre over a completely optional challenge content.

• Costs next to nothing to implement compared to its at-level gear and difficulty progression provided (more efficient, even, than the content obviously meant to optimize hours played per dev hours spent like Diadem, Eureka, and Bozja).
• Provides incredibly granular difficulty to progress at one's own pace, between gearing out more comprehensively before progressing forward or pushing forward on skill and a dream alone.
• Doesn't allow for players to be replaced mid-dungeon, thus reducing mid-run drama, but provides for well-contextualized at-a-glance information as to potential party members' experience as to also reduce the chance of getting a horribly underprepared player.
• Timers convenience players playing on a schedule by setting a particular expectation (e.g. of a ~35 minute run -- more likely ~25 minutes here in XIV's simpler dungeons) so that players have a more unified approach to the content and are less incentivized to bash their head against walls for well over an hour, while still barely punishing failure in terms of loot quality lost (from 236 to 233, or about a 1.2% loss, at the current ilvl cap) and thus allowing for intentionally longer runs (albeit in a manner specified in party formation, as it's not normalized by the system itself).
• Variance even within the same dungeon via additive components ("affixes").

What's not to hate, honestly? /s

Granted, If I'd the choice, I'd get rid of the keystones and just let us go into whatever dungeon we want at whatever level we feel is worth our time and effort. And if we were talking XIV, there's no way I'd port M+ over directly. XIV deserves its own spin on things, so long as it doesn't continue to find its style in what is simply "both less functional and more convoluted" as per so many other of its other technical systems (much like WoW's reward/progression systems when compared to XIV's, outside of the latter's roulettes), such as our beloved glamour dresser...