Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

[Ath192]

That’s why I like Aurum Vale. I mean… it’s a dangerous dungeon… don’t you think adventuring would involve danger at some point? I think it’s very sad dungeons are designed in such a way that it’s actually hard to get yourself killed, wall to wall pulls are the standard and anyone with decent reflexes can survive that.

I guess that’s truly what is missing in all of these dungeons. There’s no more suspense or uncertainty that something can go wrong. As a consequence, it’s a relaxing affair and boring for those of us that actually like adventuring.

[EtherRose]

SNIP.

What you're opinion boils down to is "Story dungeons are to easy later on. Make them "Challenging" again". If you or anyone actually paid attention to the Live Letter's, you would know that they want it all to be kind of easy and accessible for all because they are mainly story dungeons. That's why they nerfed some bosses in ARR and such. If you want challenging "Side Content" go do Savage/Extreme/Ultimate.

And I never viewed ARR dungeons as a "Chore". I think you view things these way because you only play "WHM". Tending to play only 1 job sucks the fun out completely. I like to play Tank/DPS and Healer. And doing the dungeons on different jobs and switching it up makes it fun and different than just playing the exact same role all the time.

[Wilford111]

Aurum Vale is fine. It just has incredibly difficult mechanics like "click the thing after getting 2 stacks of debuff", "dodge out of the big circular AoE", "dodge out of the big linear AoE", and "kill adds".

Congratulations for thinking it's not challenging.

[juicybug]

13 was boring and linear for sure, with too many plots going on- and too many terms to remember that eventually faded in relevance due to the lack of information given in the first place- we were supposed to just nod and agree to the cluster that was ff13's story and lore. the gameplay/combat was fun at times? I guess, x-2 as meaningless as the entire game was- the combat was super fun. BUT back on topic, I hate Matoya's dungeon, it's 1 continuous path, of nothing but an ugly hallway. The others, are just mobs > pull >fight >boss> repeat. I agree, the ARR ones are always annoying to get, however they had a bit more depth to them. I do support the idea of bringing back the originality/complexity - with more complexity this time around, of the former dungeons.

A bit off track, I came from gw2- because it just abandoned lore driven dungeon content and refuses to fix long standing issues, and pretends it never existed. Yet, loyal players defend these choices. There was actually an entire path removed from the game out of a dungeon due to its "difficulty" although it was the best out of the paths, but some players who didn't like mechanics or dungeon complexities got their way- and again, and again. A little context (all dungeons had different paths one would need to clear to get a title) Things that keep MMOs going, like tiered content (for example) with increasing uniqueness just never happened due to mismanagement of the game and the disaster that was gw2 esports. (which led to a massive class wide nerfs, and dumbed down gameplay and loss of financial resources.)

[Roda]

13 was boring and linear for sure, with too many plots going on- and too many terms to remember that eventually faded in relevance due to the lack of information given in the first place- we were supposed to just nod and agree to the cluster that was ff13's story and lore. the gameplay/combat was fun at times? I guess, x-2 as meaningless as the entire game was- the combat was super fun. BUT back on topic, I hate Matoya's dungeon, it's 1 continuous path, of nothing but an ugly hallway. The others, are just mobs > pull >fight >boss> repeat. I agree, the ARR ones are always annoying to get, however they had a bit more depth to them. I do support the idea of bringing back the originality/complexity - with more complexity this time around, of the former dungeons.

A bit off track, I came from gw2- because it just abandoned lore driven dungeon content and refuses to fix long standing issues, and pretends it never existed. Yet, loyal players defend these choices. There was actually an entire path removed from the game out of a dungeon due to its "difficulty" although it was the best out of the paths, but some players who didn't like mechanics or dungeon complexities got their way- and again, and again. A little context (all dungeons had different paths one would need to clear to get a title) Things that keep MMOs going, like tiered content (for example) with increasing uniqueness just never happened due to mismanagement of the game and the disaster that was gw2 esports. (which led to a massive class wide nerfs, and dumbed down gameplay and loss of financial resources.)

A bit of a side note here, gw2 is kind of doing dungeons again, but it's in the form of fractals that feel like full dungeons. (deepstone, sunqua, twilight oasis). They don't have the multiple paths, but they are very dungeon-like in their composition. (and I thought that the removed path was removed because it was bugged)

But yeah Dungeons in this game need some MAJOR work because currently the only fun I get out of them is making them be over as fast as possible, which is not ideal. They really feel like the dev team is coasting on its inertia and not really trying to give us anything engaging besides a new mechanic or two. Gimme puzzles SE. Make the party have to split up and explore a bit (of our own volition, don't just teleport each of us into a hallway and tell us to go straight to complete a task). Give us actual threatening terrain hazards. Something other than 3 bosses in circular or square rooms separated by 2 pull hallways with the most interesting level design being a left or right turn and some pretty assets. I wouldn't mind slower dungeon runs if it meant I was actually able to have fun while doing them.

[Rofel]

Sometimes I feel the devs are pulling punches for the dungeons on purpose so we stop missing them after getting used to get new ones each patch.

[Justuas]

Yes, this game is a theme park mmo.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

I'm not going to go into Mythic+ but were Square Enix to go back to ARR design for gameplay with ShB quality aesthetics when it comes to dungeons, they can easily add a popular side content that will have longevity through an entire patch. It's certainly in their financial interests to amp up the gameplay of these dungeons too.

Except that you did go into it. Mythic+ timed content in FFXIV would make me quit not just XIV but MMO's in general. Please never M+.

[ReynTime]

Except that you did go into it. Mythic+ timed content in FFXIV would make me quit not just XIV but MMO's in general. Please never M+.

Imagine quitting a genre over a completely optional challenge content.

[Hyrist]

I'm focused here on actionable corrections - not scoring assertion points in a forum. You're entitled to your opinions, but keep them in the appropriate wheelhouse please.

I don't foresee major changes to dungeons in terms of them being 'shallow'. The fact is, they're accepted as regular, rotatable content for years now with only a small levels of complaint focused in places like these.

Development of complex dungeon would take additional development time, and they've already reallocated manpower into trying to make them more of a spectacle and add more features to them such as Trusts.

There's a lot of belittling any opposing opinion or observation here, but take it in for a moment that this game is successful - as is. Faults and all. Rather than be reductive in the statements, perhaps being additive and positive in the manner of which content is viewed.

I like the idea of adding optional content that allows people to explore difficult dungeon with complex puzzles and design. As I stated before I feel it would make a good replacement/reimplementation to Deep Dungeon content - and may even be worth designing above something like the current Relic grind (Save the Queen Series).

That said - current content in this game has its place and has been very effective thus far. The system has worked, and I don't feel a dramatic departure from current content for those systems would be warranted. And they have continued to improve dungeons in a manner differing from what's being suggested here, but are improvements. Mechanics continue to occur to introduce players to different ways of thinking and acting in situations that may have or will come up in other content - and there's something to be said for the level of spectacle that's exists. They've defiantly upped their dungeon presentation in Shadowbringers.

I do feel that this proposal (dungeons with more depth and explorations) would be good to be additive to what exists. There's no value in belittling players who enjoy current content. If it's something you don't, that's fine too. But it's not worth your time to be reductive or toxic about it - focus on what we can do to make the game better.