Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Miracle_Diva]

They're not playing the game to THINK. Most people have to spend way too much of their day thinking at their job or at school.

They're playing the game to HAVE FUN. If you're engineering the system to be complex and requiring thought instead of simple so it's intuitive, you've removed fun from the equation and turned the game into a second job.

I bet, you didn't think before you wrote this. Probably because thinking isn't fun.

[Jojoya]

I bet, you didn't think before you wrote this. Probably because thinking isn't fun.

I thought very much before I wrote it.

Thinking absolutely can be fun for some people. I'm one of them. I like solving puzzles.

But I also like other things. I don't want to be spending all of my time solving puzzles when that's taking time away from other things I also want to do.

Not everyone finds THINK to be fun. They just want to relax after a stressful day doing other things. But perhaps your own ability to THINK is too narrow to understand that.

[Miracle_Diva]

I thought very much before I wrote it.

Thinking absolutely can be fun for some people. I'm one of them. I like solving puzzles.

But I also like other things. I don't want to be spending all of my time solving puzzles when that's taking time away from other things I also want to do.

Not everyone finds THINK to be fun. They just want to relax after a stressful day doing other things. But perhaps your own ability to THINK is too narrow to understand that.

Well just don't do stressful or hard content if you want to relax? But I guess we now need to cater towards "tired" people when we make games. Right.

[Jojoya]

Well just don't do stressful or hard content if you want to relax? But I guess we now need to cater towards "tired" people when we make games. Right.

When did this turn into a discussion about stressful/hard content? The OP was addressing all content that wasn't being done solo.

You're the one who believes THINK is so important. Try engaging it. Game companies are profit driven in the end. That means they need to think about all the potential customers they are trying to attract, including people who are tired after a long day of work. They absolutely need to cater part of their game to those people.

Part does not mean all, though. I've already stated if you run into someone joining a Savage/EX/Ultimate group that does not meet reasonable expectations for performance in that content, by all means remove them from the group.

But those same standards cannot be expected of players doing normal content. That content is intended for everyone.

The experience with duty finder in NA is just a mess, honestly I have gotten a decent amount of nice people, but it truly is a dice roll. For every super fun run with sprouts with no expectations there is another with some weirdo freaking out on people. Then there is the person I had in Qarn who just skipped all of the loot when the sprout was there for the first time. I think leveling a dps is cursed. I just wished to level dps so I knew what to expect when going into content. I wished to know what the ground aoes dps put down so I do not mistaken it for an enemies. What other classes may be viewing from their portion of the battle field. What mechanics they have within their class such as ninja's needed to refresh their pinwheel and not to chain pull because you can not become hidden during combat like in other games I have played that had separate skills for being able to hide in combat. Maybe NA data centers themselves are cursed. I just wish to relax, and not get into something every other time with someone with a bad attitude. I honestly thought it was a meme about people blaming healers too, a tank actually blamed the healer for their death in sleepy snowcloak.

Or it's more a problem with a specific data center. It's extremely rare I run into issues in Duty Finder. I'm even leveling a new character right now and the number of players being welcoming and helpful to all the sprouts has been great to see.

I'm not going to say the bad experiences never happen on Crystal but they're so uncommon from my experience I never walk into an instance fearing the group will have a nightmare player.

[SomeRandomHuman]

But those same standards cannot be expected of players doing normal content. That content is intended for everyone.

So expecting someone in the Qitana Ravel to know what their basic combo chains are and perform them is too high of a standard?

[DPZ2]

So expecting someone in the Qitana Ravel to know what their basic combo chains are and perform them is too high of a standard?

So, does this sort of thing happen to you often, or was it a one-time thing that sticks in your memory because you were feeling bored that day and wanted to find something to vent about?

Was the person level 80? Or level 75? Were you complaining in party chat, or did you suffer in silence? Did you vote kick that person (or persons, if this is an ongoing thing you encounter)? Did the run-through take the entire 90 minutes? Was the job a caster? A tank? A healer? One of the physical DPS?

Were you looking at the battle chat in-game at the time? Or did you just use that forbidden utility to spec out what was happening after the fact? [I have enough problems keeping track of my own actions in-game, let alone those of the other 3 players in an instance -- do you have god-like powers to do both?]

[Seera1024]

So, does this sort of thing happen to you often, or was it a one-time thing that sticks in your memory because you were feeling bored that day and wanted to find something to vent about?

Was the person level 80? Or level 75? Were you complaining in party chat, or did you suffer in silence? Did you vote kick that person (or persons, if this is an ongoing thing you encounter)? Did the run-through take the entire 90 minutes? Was the job a caster? A tank? A healer? One of the physical DPS?

Were you looking at the battle chat in-game at the time? Or did you just use that forbidden utility to spec out what was happening after the fact? [I have enough problems keeping track of my own actions in-game, let alone those of the other 3 players in an instance -- do you have god-like powers to do both?]

If the person is playing a class you know well, it's probably pretty easy to tell if someone's not doing the entire rotation.

Like a Black Mage would be easy to tell if they were swapping between fire and ice and using Thunder. Fire and Ice cause red or blue/white orbs to rotate around the character. Thunder is a DoT and can be seen on the enemy healthbar.

A Dragoon would be easy to tell if they are using their jumps and the Dragon eye.

Classes where the positional changes from rear to flank would be easy to tell if the person is doing their positionals properly to those who have played those classes.

Expecting players to do the basics of their class isn't expecting someone to be hard core or elite.

Just because someone is not performing their bare minimum doesn't mean a player is going to feel the need to kick the player or leave themselves. May depend on how well everyone else is doing. May depend on how willing players are in that player's group are to give a carry if the player is performing badly enough.

[Rinhi]

So, does this sort of thing happen to you often, or was it a one-time thing that sticks in your memory because you were feeling bored that day and wanted to find something to vent about?

Was the person level 80? Or level 75? Were you complaining in party chat, or did you suffer in silence? Did you vote kick that person (or persons, if this is an ongoing thing you encounter)? Did the run-through take the entire 90 minutes? Was the job a caster? A tank? A healer? One of the physical DPS?

Were you looking at the battle chat in-game at the time? Or did you just use that forbidden utility to spec out what was happening after the fact? [I have enough problems keeping track of my own actions in-game, let alone those of the other 3 players in an instance -- do you have god-like powers to do both?]

let's see
last month I had, in the span of a bit more than a week:
an E12N that had to be abandoned because both healers wouldn't use anything but the base low level spells of their class, no OGCD healing usage at all, who were toxic to everyone involved when people asked them to use something else - yes, it was their first time doing E12N, no, no one was giving them a hard time for failing mechanics
but their lack of healing meant that both rdm's ran out of MP to rez people because any modicum of damage meant someone died due to lack of healing
neither of them were sprouts and both had multiple jobs at 80 and at that level and after 5 or 6 wipes, you'd think they'd have picked up 1-2 mechs or at least thought about just following one of the players that executed the mechs, but no
a scholar who had trouble healing matoya single pulls and was complaining about the tank, every healer at 80
a tank single pulling paglthan who stopped tanking when the dps' and I pulled the rest
shinryu, where the two rdm's in the party were hardcasting verraise multiple times, both of them having multiple jobs at 80, attacking the boss and hardcasting it again, with the mentor sch not healing at all and dying to the wave mech, the first timer tank also dying to said mech (no big deal due to first timer) and the second tank not having their stance on, which meant the dps' get deleted one after another - the sprout whm being overwhelmed with the amount of healing they had to do and dying because they didn't heal themselves and instead tried to raise the tank again (nbd again)
and that whole thing almost happened again, with the rdm's hardcasting every long-ass spell for most of the fight until at least one of them figured out how dualcast worked and subsequently sped up the run a LOT, but now the sch helped with the healing

multiple people were begging and trying to help the two healers in e12 and shinryu but it fell on deaf ears or was ignored, the sch and tank in the dungeons were toxic and resistant to advice and got kicked but not before threatening reports
it's not hard to miss an RDM hardcasting or a healer standing around with a thumb in their butt, you don't even need that forbidden tool for that - and I don't understand why you'd bring it up?

[SomeRandomHuman]

So, does this sort of thing happen to you often, or was it a one-time thing that sticks in your memory because you were feeling bored that day and wanted to find something to vent about?

Was the person level 80? Or level 75? Were you complaining in party chat, or did you suffer in silence? Did you vote kick that person (or persons, if this is an ongoing thing you encounter)? Did the run-through take the entire 90 minutes? Was the job a caster? A tank? A healer? One of the physical DPS?

Were you looking at the battle chat in-game at the time? Or did you just use that forbidden utility to spec out what was happening after the fact? [I have enough problems keeping track of my own actions in-game, let alone those of the other 3 players in an instance -- do you have god-like powers to do both?]

I've played, leveled, and messed around on every job long enough to have their basic rotations on muscle memory so I can identify stuff on the fly. This game isn't overly difficult and you can observe someone else if you're familiar with the visual ques and mechanics of a dungeon. I can do most of the 71-80 dungeons without paying attention what so ever.

As far as the forbidden tool. I'm a console player so I don't have access to it without going through a ludicrous amount of hoops and jumps that can get my whole PSN account banned. Then as mentioned prior, if you know what icons on other jobs mean you can easily identify stuff that's there.

[Shurrikhan]

When did this turn into a discussion about stressful/hard content? The OP was addressing all content that wasn't being done solo.

You're the one who believes THINK(ing?) is so important. Try engaging it(your ability to think?). Game companies are profit driven in the end. That means they need to think about all the potential customers they are trying to attract, including people who are tired after a long day of work. They absolutely need to cater part of their game to those people.

:: Parentheticals my own, to ensure I'm understanding your retorts to Diva here. Emphasis (underline) also my own.

There are plenty of games that already profit plentifully by attracting players who are too tired to think. Find them on Steam. Find them on Google Play. There's a veritable trove of them.

So why do we need to increasingly turn XIV into Candy Crush? The relaxing parts are already there, and most investment in system design (Trusts, for instance) have increasingly catered to (made further allotments for) that span of players.

Again, when the game was released, dungeons as a content type included instances which could appeal to those looking for more than just a relaxing experience (i.e., those who actually wanted to engage with the systems of the game at a level that'd give those systems pertinence). Because the game has done so little to increase its efforts to facilitate learning even as the number of pieces of content have increased twofold, threefold, fourfold, content types have, in effect, begun to exclude player interests they used to include. "You want cognitive engagement? Go fight in a boss arena. You want depth in a job kit? Sorry, but you'll have to find something other than MCH now, no matter how that aesthetic may be your favorite. We don't serve your kind here anymore."

The kind of exclusion you're fearing is what's been subtly happening over the last 7 years, with some points of change far more noticeable than others, to those you'd accuse of encroaching on your preferred style of content design.