Please implement something to teach players how to play

[SomeRandomHuman]

It's simple, they think they are playing on a basic level. They think that because they haven't been kicked enough. When you have a tank who is single pulling, a healer that is spam healing, or DPS single targeting pack of mobs you should tell them how to play, kick them or leave the dungeon yourself. These are community standards that you guys want to fix, it is not an issue directly related to the game but with the community itself. You shouldn't be asking the GMs to fix the things that are wrong in your community, they can't do that and they won't even try it.

I've never said it's the GM team's responsibility. I've said earlier in this thread that the community needs to address this actually. Just trying to stomp out the resistance where we can first.

[Ralph2449]

I've never said it's the GM team's responsibility. I've said earlier in this thread that the community needs to address this actually. Just trying to stomp out the resistance where we can first.

And that is why I will always disagree with that because game communities are rarely healthy or have normal standards, take WoW's community for example which is known for its elitism and toxicity, if you arent a metaslave getting into groups is 4 times harder even if you are a better player because the community brainlessly values metaslaving over anything else because you really cant quantify good play(unless you start from day 1 of the patch so your r.io is ahead of the curve, i dare you to change mains later on though cuz linking main isnt as useful as some believe)
So we have a community who falsely believes the only way to clear things is only with broken meta combs and anything else is """unviable""" even though many times this """unviable""" thing performs better than the metaslaves who simply play something they dont like because they were told its meta.
The amount of times throughout the years I had people in wow go like "Omg i didnt know X """unviable""" spec I played was good" and be completely surprised because they brainlessly listened to THE COMMUNITY are too many to count.

And let's not even go to the area where THE COMMUNITY demands ilvl equal to the rewards of said content to invite someone.

So no, I absolutely am against THE COMMUNITY ever having too much power because THE COMMUNITY is more often than not very very wrong on many things because they blindly follow simple guides or streamers and never truly understand the game.

[SomeRandomHuman]

And that is why I will always disagree with that because game communities are rarely healthy or have normal standards, take WoW's community for example which is known for its elitism and toxicity, if you arent a metaslave getting into groups is 4 times harder even if you are a better player because the community brainlessly values metaslaving over anything else because you really cant quantify good play(unless you start from day 1 of the patch so your r.io is ahead of the curve, i dare you to change mains later on though cuz linking main isnt as useful as some believe)
So we have a community who falsely believes the only way to clear things is only with broken meta combs and anything else is """unviable""" even though many times this """unviable""" thing performs better than the metaslaves who simply play something they dont like because they were told its meta.
The amount of times throughout the years I had people in wow go like "Omg i didnt know X """unviable""" spec I played was good" and be completely surprised because they brainlessly listened to THE COMMUNITY are too many to count.

And let's not even go to the area where THE COMMUNITY demands ilvl equal to the rewards of said content to invite someone.

So no, I absolutely am against THE COMMUNITY ever having too much power because THE COMMUNITY is more often than not very very wrong on many things because they blindly follow simple guides or streamers and never truly understand the game.

And here we go with the exaggerations... again.

Yoshi P himself has said MANY times that everything is able to be done with any combination of jobs. People trying to undermine this are the ones who take things too far.

But setting a standard level of play at being able to perform the basic* rotation and mechanics of the job you're playing is perfectly acceptable.

*Knowing how your combos work, using your buffs/debuffs occationally, making use of any oGCD dps actions part of the time, basic understanding of any DoTs and their interactions with the job's kit, and know the main gimmick of the job to the point you know how to make use of it on a partial level.

[Ralph2449]

Yoshi P himself has said MANY times that everything is able to be done with any combination of jobs.

Ion himself has also many times said all specs are balanced to be able to clear all game content(bar world first), and even though bad average metaslaves will disagree because the sims show X meta class do 20% more damage the fact remains that all content included mythic raids can be done by all specs after the first few weeks where people have farmed some mythic gear so they can easily get over that 20% metaslave advantage(Advantage that only exists if you are able to abuse said meta spec btw).

That is the truth, what does THE COMMUNITY instead do? Refuse to believe that non meta classes are viable for content and keeps labeling anything non meta "unviable" and keeps crying about how terrible everything is.

THE COMMUNITY cannot be trusted because it is filled by easy to influence and basic people who never bother to understand the game indepth like the devs, it doesnt matter that the lead dev says something that goes against community beliefs, THE COMMUNITY will keep ignoring them and keep living on its own bubble where everything non meta is unviable because that is easy and simple to spread, and that is why you should never listen to THE COMMUNITY.

With the huge influx of wow players in FF14 and its rising in popularity dont be surprised if after a while some sweaty people figure out which 8 man comb has 2% more dps and start advertising that and THE COMMUNITY starts pretending dps jobs outside of that list are "unviable".

[Shurrikhan]

Ion himself has also many times said all specs are balanced to be able to clear all game content(bar world first), and even though bad average metaslaves will disagree because the sims show X meta class do 20% more damage the fact remains that all content included mythic raids can be done by all specs after the first few weeks where people have farmed some mythic gear so they can easily get over that 20% metaslave advantage(Advantage that only exists if you are able to abuse said meta spec btw).

He also leaves both specs and fights laden with bugs placing them apart from their theoretical values, if not outright unbeatable, which, in the case of specs, he admits to only after finally discovering the cause of the discrepancy many months later...

If he'd actually used more than voluntary player labor for his playtesting, and released the versions that had thus been successfully playtested, what you're saying might mean something.

Except, of course, in that high-end difficulty fights can absolutely be passed or failed on the basis of a 20% damage difference, or even just a difference in the timing of said damage. Theirs actually have DPS checks.

[Ralph2449]

Well, I think everything needs to be said has been said. This is the top dog MMORPG for a reason, and they are clearly doing things right.

Exactly, and more importantly they ve learned from the mistakes of others since Yoshi P plays and knows many of the problems WoW has and thankfully is ignoring the pleas of certain people with a very toxic mentality in a VIDEO GAME.

WoW started as a casual mmorpg where you didnt have things like losing gear when dying but instead of staying casual they decided to focus on high end content to pander to certain elitist crowd whose ego depends on video game achievements, and through time the effects of such mentality are clear, more and more focus on high end content, casual content becomes less and less relevant and with less and less rewards so the raid loggers dont feel "forced" to do dirty casual content, even doing Torghast is a torture for them because they are "forced" to do dirty casual content since their elite selves should only focus on raid logging.

Blizzard listened to these people, hell the lead Dev is a person that sadly shares that mentality to a degree and no matter how much he tries to pander to everyone, you cannot, you have to stick to one side and focus on making a good game based on your vision, never try to satisfy opposing sides, you end up disappointing both.

He also leaves both specs and fights laden with bugs placing them apart from their theoretical values, if not outright unbeatable, which, in the case of specs, he admits to only after finally discovering the cause of the discrepancy many months later...

If he'd actually used more than voluntary player labor for his playtesting, and released the versions that had thus been successfully playtested, what you're saying might mean something.

Except, of course, in that high-end difficulty fights can absolutely be passed or failed on the basis of a 20% damage difference, or even just a difference in the timing of said damage. Theirs actually have DPS checks.

Ion no matter how much THE COMMUNITY hates him is a dev that understands his game and knows how it works, which is why THE COMMUNITY has such a hard time grasping things such as meaningful choices like covenants because the majority of them dont know how to play an RPG and think googling the best build not only makes them a good player but it is how you play an mmoRPG.

Ion knows that every spec can clear mythic and more importantly you are meant to use your brain and figure out how to do things with your comb's tools instead of "change to X spec cuz its how you do the fight, limit told me", but like you said, someone's epeen will drop if they have to wait a week for gear to pass a dps check they are currently unable to because they dont use the most broken specs and metaslave comb possible, and I know that is literally worst fate than death for the people whose self worth is based on video game achievements.


I can agree that his balancing is quite terrible, after all they created templates in pvp in legion only to barely use them while the whole point of easy to manipulate template is quick and often changes to break metas fast, but he still understands the game far better than THE COMMUNITY, at least in terms of class and raid design cuz he is absolutely hopeless in terms of casual content.

[Shurrikhan]

Ion no matter how much THE COMMUNITY hates him is a dev that understands his game and knows how it works, which is why THE COMMUNITY has such a hard time grasping things such as meaningful choices like covenants

Damn, I stand corrected; BroFists has nothing on you. 10/10, mate.

[Liam_Harper]

Ion no matter how much THE COMMUNITY hates him is a dev that understands his game and knows how it works, which is why THE COMMUNITY has such a hard time grasping things such as meaningful choices like covenants because the majority of them dont know how to play an RPG

Ah yes, the "we know better" and "you're just playing our game wrong, it's actually great, you're just idiots" attitude. Brilliant. Sure, Blizzard hasn't seen a hint of my money for over 3-4 years now and is now facing a mass exodus, but they do know best. How dare we not see that and give them the money they deserve.

[Jojoya]

Ion no matter how much THE COMMUNITY hates him is a dev that understands his game and knows how it works, which is why THE COMMUNITY has such a hard time grasping things such as meaningful choices like covenants because the majority of them dont know how to play an RPG and think googling the best build not only makes them a good player but it is how you play an mmoRPG.

What Ion understands is how the game is engineered. After all, he did create Elitist Jerks when he was just a player to form one of the first major theorycrafting communities for WoW. He was the one who broke down the numbers to prove that it was mathematically impossible for players to beat C'thun as it was originally released.

He understands the engineering. He was a great Lead Encounter Designer. He knows what makes a game fun to those who like number crunching (the engineering aspect) because that's the type of player he was.

He does not understand RPGs nor does he understand what makes a game fun to the average player, and that is why the game is currently having problems. They're trying to engineer complex systems they find challenging to design without understanding those complex systems are not fun to play.

If MSQ actually worked as a tutorial, no one would complain about stuff in lv80 duties.

If MSQ didn't work fine as a tutorial, everyone would be failing at 80.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Ion himself has also many times said all specs are balanced to be able to clear all game content(bar world first), and even though bad average metaslaves will disagree because the sims show X meta class do 20% more damage the fact remains that all content included mythic raids can be done by all specs after the first few weeks where people have farmed some mythic gear so they can easily get over that 20% metaslave advantage(Advantage that only exists if you are able to abuse said meta spec btw).

That is the truth, what does THE COMMUNITY instead do? Refuse to believe that non meta classes are viable for content and keeps labeling anything non meta "unviable" and keeps crying about how terrible everything is.

THE COMMUNITY cannot be trusted because it is filled by easy to influence and basic people who never bother to understand the game indepth like the devs, it doesnt matter that the lead dev says something that goes against community beliefs, THE COMMUNITY will keep ignoring them and keep living on its own bubble where everything non meta is unviable because that is easy and simple to spread, and that is why you should never listen to THE COMMUNITY.

With the huge influx of wow players in FF14 and its rising in popularity dont be surprised if after a while some sweaty people figure out which 8 man comb has 2% more dps and start advertising that and THE COMMUNITY starts pretending dps jobs outside of that list are "unviable".

This has always happened in XIV. It's been a thing since long before WoW players starting swarming to XIV. It's always going to have a certain stigma because it's an MMO. That's also the main reason why they never did any extra effects on actions. That's why people start their own raid groups when they can't find one.

The community can be a toxic cesspool yes, but I'm sure you've heard the legends of the lines of Dark Knights in memory of Berserk's author passing away. I've also read of small memorial events happening from time to time on servers where a player has died or become otherwise incapacitated.

As long as the community is strong enough to focus on the positive more than the negative it has the potential to work out great, but this is social psychology territory and we know how tricky this basket is.