Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Ralph2449]

Why are people so eager to speak on the behalf of communities they clearly know little about?

You cannot overgear WoW leveling dungeons because of scaling. Your sustained dps is higher the lower level you are, to the point that not having at-level gear is hardly a problem compared to just being high-leveled. Even if one wanted the fastest possible run, they'd sooner kick the overgeared guy than the sprout-equivalent, because the overgeared guy increases the HP of mobs by a ratio greater than his damage exceeds the sprout's.

In the hardest dungeon content available, M+, you literally cannot replace those you've kicked. It automatically fails the run.

The only place where gear somewhat matters in casual endgame dungeons in the equivalent of Level 80 Dungeons Roulette, and even then people would much rather you just have a decent notion of what you're doing and not be an ass than be overgeared. Apart from obvious griefers or blatant leeches, no one is more likely to be kicked that the overgeared guy speeding ahead pulling CC-casting mobs or soloing bosses while people catch up from fear/stun-locks the guy overwhelmed them with.

Oh this is so wrong, leveling dungeons scaling can easily be abused with the right gear, scaling it nowhere near as advanced as you are saying, you can easily have gear that is too strong for low level content which is why a month after launch you see dps pulling entire rooms and surviving cuz they know heroic/normal dungeons are roflstomps when you are geared. Hell there's threads in the forums of people getting kicked because they werent ultra geared and were doing 1/5th of the other player dps because they were new while the older players had full on mythic gear and only doing heroic for legendaries/bonus or some quest.

In WoW gear is everything, people with gear have been selling leveling dungeon runs because they can literally pull half the dungeons and roflstomp it, very common in BfA's pirate dungeon where a single DH/warr pulled half the dungeon and killed everything in a few minutes to feed you xp while you afk near the area and then reset the dungeon, I know I bought a few leveling runs.

And in case you arent aware, the leave % in M+ is pretty high the moment a wipe happens and it means the timer will end, it doesnt matter that the run ends, people are often doing m+ for IO so if you cant time it, its bye bye for them and you can enjoy your depleted keystone.

And cuz i know WoW players like to attack others and pretend they dont know what they are talking about, feel free to check my profile https://raider.io/characters/us/frostmourne/Ralph%C3%A9

[Shurrikhan]

Oh this is so wrong, leveling dungeons scaling can easily be abused with the right gear, scaling it nowhere near as advanced as you are saying, you can easily have gear that is too strong for low level content.

I never said it was advanced. I certainly would not call an experience which seems to steadily punish you for leveling up "advanced". I said the HP-from-player-levels-scaling on mobs greatly incentivizes low levels, more so than highest-ilvl possible for one's level. In a scaled dungeon, a BiS BfA raider after some 30 seconds in single-target would still parse no higher than a level 12 Marksman hunter, for instance. A level 49 (1 level short of BfA cap)? Typically much lower than the 12, even if he were equipped in all level 49 gear while the 12 was missing slots.

In WoW gear is everything

No; just as per here, gear will not indicate skill, and therefore will not in itself get you invited to groups. Why do you think IO is so sought after, as per your admission? I'd much rather have a i170 I can trust in a given +7 than an i210 who can't use their utility.

people with gear have been selling leveling dungeon runs because they can literally pull half the dungeons and roflstomp it, very common in BfA's pirate dungeon where a single DH/warr pulled half the dungeon and killed everything in a few minutes to feed you xp while you afk near the area and then reset the dungeon, I know I bought a few leveling runs.

The Freehold mob farms were common only during the exp pot exploit... which was before the level squish. At this point it has almost nothing to do with the power of that gear and almost everything to do with the fact that Freehold has abnormally high amounts of mobs conveniently available before its first boss, and people still being lazy enough to pay nearly as much in-game as they would in just selling game-time tokens and buying a level boost. It's the equivalent to Aurum Vale first room spam runs back in the day, or Doma Castle until-first-boss runs in Stormblood.

:: Hell, you can still pull most of those areas all at once straight out of Exile's Reach. I literally just did this with some friends new to the game. 3 level 12s and 2 30s. Only two among the party even had heirloom gear.

And in case you arent aware, the leave % in M+ is pretty high the moment a wipe happens and it means the timer will end, it doesnt matter that the run ends, people are often doing m+ for IO so if you cant time it, its bye bye for them and you can enjoy your depleted keystone.

Never said otherwise. I said there's no reason to kick people in M+ over gear (or even performance), because you cannot replace them. The only useful application for a kick is to remove someone actively sabotaging the run.

That being said, out of the 20 or so keys my PuG group clearly weren't going to time, only 1 had leavers, and that was because the tank clearly had no idea what they were doing. It's at most a 1.3% loss to loot quality if one fails the run. It does not reduce the amount of loot that drops. If you want people to stay, stop asking for gear in excess of what they could possibly gain from the run, as that leaves IO as their sole incentive to join you. Even then, going 2 minutes or so overtime only reduces your score by 2-4 points. By the time you're pushing over 15s, that's less than 2% IO loss.

[Fungo]

Personally as a new player, I find it difficult to learn rotations properly, due to the syncs.
I am only a 57 samurai now, but when in group content, I often find myself missing one skill or another, so for me it us hard to build up muscle memory. So I am sure older players will see me screw up all the time.

I am just happy that everybody seems so nice in FF14.

[Faafetai]

Personally as a new player, I find it difficult to learn rotations properly, due to the syncs.
I am only a 57 samurai now, but when in group content, I often find myself missing one skill or another, so for me it us hard to build up muscle memory. So I am sure older players will see me screw up all the time.

I am just happy that everybody seems so nice in FF14.

Aye, in swtor if you reached max level 75 by any means you would keep your abilities. On the other end you would not have abilities in the content you synced up to, so if you were level 25 and went into a flashpoint that brought you up to level 75 you would not have your abilities, but your armor and skills would be synced to the higher level. No matter what planet you were on, if you unlocked an ability, you kept it.

For ffxiv building muscle memory for any class is not fun. I have skills on my bar that feel great level 80, but when synced down I have to get use to what I have all over again, and what buttons do not exist. Also leveling and getting use to the class, if I am stuck in level 50 dungeons until level 60 for the most part than suddenly I am 60 and thrown into that set of dungeons I had no time to practice it at that level. Sure I could manual queue for those things, but eventually down the road I am just excepting that I am never going to not be rusty at level 70 content when I am stuck at level 50 content, and when I finally get level 80 content you can finally see your rotation in its final form.

It kind of made me happy one day queuing, there was a moment in mt gulg, I pulled the first bit and it took a bit of time, but as the pull went on everyone was remembering they were at 80 in that dungeon. It was a satisfying, everyone is warming up in this dungeon, holy cow thank goodness I am not the only one >.< The amount of times I say to myself 'I have (x ability) in here and I haven't been using it!'facepalm

[MiaShino]

Pfffffffffff ohhh myyy I am now the worst troll of them all! That is smexy I love it. Anyways!

And I trained my members to play extremely conservative and only worry about dealing as much dmg as needed to kill the boss, every other ounce of concentration should be spent on staying alive and doing mechanics.

Woah! You kinda sound like JP player, which is not a bad thing at'all. This is how I usually approach new fights especially as healer.

I am only a 57 samurai now, but when in group content, I often find myself missing one skill or another, so for me it us hard to build up muscle memory. So I am sure older players will see me screw up all the time.

I feel the level sync part of this directly on the soul and it hurts. Hmm. I have not been playing for super long so cannot speak as a veteran player buuuuut I probably would not notice. I would be too busy doing this myself! It is only when a fight begins to take far longer then it usually does then I start inspecting party member's gear first or search info. For you I would probably see random dungeon gear and highest level 57 and think "Ohh, they are just here for first time enjoying the story. Well! Have fun! You are in the good bits now."

You're the one who believes THINK is so important.

All games are designed in some ways to provoke though, even walking simulators. Actually, walking simulators tend to provoke much though! Layer's of Fear and Soma involve mostly walking about until the later bits and were some of the most thought provoking games for this Mia.

Another example most fantastic is Disco Elysium and it has no "combat" within it. Most movies, games, books are designed to make one think and this is not bad thing. It should be praised.

maybe I'll make a crystal alt and see for myself how different it is!

I shall say a silent prayer for you, may you return with some semblance of sanity still in tact. I hear there is a cult over there and there are dark dark rumors about something called 'the old ones'. They say simply speaking the name can drive one mad.

For other stuffs I wish to say; Rather than quote everyone and make the post even longer I will simply reply because it is kinda relevant.

Yes, we have hall of novice but it is not required. Yes we do have job/class quests but many of them do nothing to teach.

Heck! I remember discovering that anything you can Esuna has a white line on top of the debuff symbol and interruptible spells look vastly different from non interruptible counterparts. Meanwhile 90% of my white mage quests had no consequences for allowing NPCs to die, never required Esuna, and more often could be won by doing almost nothing.

The Scholar quests kinda attempt to teach and more quests should be like this! One of the later Scholar quests requires you to Esuna party members or they parish and you wipe. I mean.. you can just put it on very easy and bypass this but that is whooooole other issue.

I think having job quests actually involve more aspects of the role you are playing (especially early jobs like conjurer/marauder/gladiator) would be most useful.

Having content that is difficult to clear if not executed properly has been a thing in gaming foreeeever and this was never a big problem. A team that refuses to use medpacks or kill special infected in Left 4 Dead 2 is probably a dead team.

Even a more "casual" RPG like Mass Effect does a pretty darn good job of teaching through gameplay. Eden Prime, the first planet demonstrates the importance of maintaining distance from melee enemies and watching out for snipers. All skillsets you will require if you are to progress.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Wake me up....when September ends

We have tried to say this so many ways, but everyone just comes back to elite casuals and buzz word buzz word random debate about speed running. I miss when everyone was giving some cool ideas, and explaining their frustrations they felt with the pre-existing 'tutorials' aka millions of pop up windows I disabled and told myself I would read those later.

Precisely this. The length of a mental gymnastic performed to justify intentional bad plays are certainly mind boggling. It’s like they’re highly allergic to this phrase specifically: “No one's asking for casual players to become elite players.” that they just had to censor it, figuratively.

I am just happy that everybody seems so nice in FF14.

Don’t worry. Majority of the playerbase ARE nice. Sometimes way too nice to a fault. Like any other MMOs, bad apples always exists.

[Shurrikhan]

Ya it was a pretty bad event. We had the GMs tell us sorry, and ban some people from the forum/and the stalker. It also was proof about how much of a nut job this community has, and it is coming to light more and more with these streamers sadly. Also, my husband was really cute defending me like that.

...You know what, I'm not even surprised you've turned the narrative on this one, but let's be clear: his post was the #gcbtw example.

I don't doubt that they gave harsh words, too; however tactless and seemingly ill-thought an angry post will be it usually has some trigger for that ugliness. But, there's a reason that "cute" post of his -- complete with its sexist slurs, intimidation, and diatribe -- stood out in memory far more than theirs, which were almost entirely civil by comparison even when accounting for implications.

and glad some people still remember it. We should all learn from it. I just find it funny the biggest troll in this thread, dug it up.

If he was able to post that and come out unscathed, then the only lesson to learn from the event would be a somewhat dystopian one. Nor does giving information that might provide an answer to the itching question of "Is this guy at all arguing in good faith, or have our past 30 pages been wasted?" make one a troll.

But, regardless, please do enjoy your experience. I'm sure you're a nice enough individual most of the time, which is about all that can be said of anyone.

If I've come off as being offended by you personally, I apologize; I merely dislike unfairness, and the rules of play you've described -- by which your individual "rights" trump those of your group despite their both equally being individuals and more numerous -- have struck me as painfully unfair. I would hate to see the game ever aim to cater to that sort of unfairness, just as I'd dislike for it to reduce the span of players capable of enjoying the game, at least from among those who historically have enjoyed it.

[Jadedsins]

...You know what, I'm not even surprised you've turned the narrative on this one. His post was the #gcbtw example.

I don't doubt that they gave harsh words, too; however tactless and seemingly ill-thought an angry post will be it usually has some trigger for that ugliness. But, there's a reason that "cute" post of his -- complete with its sexist slurs, intimidation, and diatribe -- stood out in memory far more than theirs, which were almost entirely civil by comparison even when accounting for implications.


If he was able to post that and come out unscathed, then the only lesson to learn from the event would be a somewhat dystopian one. Nor does giving information that might provide an answer to the itching question of "Is this guy at all arguing in good faith, or have our past 30 pages been wasted?" make one a troll.

But, regardless, please do enjoy your experience. I'm sure you're a nice enough individual most of the time, which is about all that can be said of anyone.

If I've come off as being offended by you personally, I apologize; I merely dislike unfairness, and the rules of play you've described -- by which your individual "rights" trump those of your group despite their both equally being individuals and more numerous -- have struck me as painfully unfair. I would hate to see the game ever aim to placate that sort of unfairness, just as I'd dislike for it to reduce the span of players capable of enjoying the game, at least from among those who historically have enjoyed it.

The person he attacked pretty much called me a S word, and people in that thread when i said I've had a bad time with the community. At the time I did. I was flamed, and I counter back like I do now. During that time in heavenward the CS support was not as good as it is now.

It was very sweet of him and I don't really care it was consider "sexist" when the woman at the time was flaming derailing and acting like I deserve the linkshell stalking me. and my husband is still around is proof that the GMS took his side on it, even though they told him he was in the wrong for getting that upset. They saw the logs, and saw what I was going through and understood why he was upset. That is the only reason we stayed with this game. His post was showing an example of the CS don't do anything to people who harass others. I mean it was a little over the top, the know your place made me roll eyes. But his heart was in the right place. and from what he was told. It help trigger some changes with reports. So more power to him.


I don't take anything people say personal. I just speak my mind, and understand people don't agree with my stance. And I don't hold it against anyone. So don't worry I have no hard feelings, and husband does not as well. We like to debate, and don't mind if people don't agree.

[Nethereal]

In a world where two wrongs make a right...

Join us in exploring a dark fantasy world where one couple has to come to terms with the fact that to be a good person they must first embody the worst traits known to man while avoiding conversion into a decent human being by the Toxic Corporate Elites.

Gods of Light - Coming to theaters soon in *021

[Jadedsins]

In a world where two wrongs make a right...

Join us in exploring a dark fantasy world where one couple has to come to terms with the fact that to be a good person they must first embody the worst traits known to man while avoiding conversion into a decent human being by the Toxic Corporate Elites.

Gods of Light - Coming to theaters soon in *021

Not sure what this has to do with topic at hand. Must be rough living in your own world. I feel bad for ya.




I think the point is trying to be made is that people like myself are happy with the content how it is, so if you want better tools to learn that is fine. Just don't force players to use said tools and that is that.