Please implement something to teach players how to play

[Jojoya]

I bet, you didn't think before you wrote this. Probably because thinking isn't fun.

I thought very much before I wrote it.

Thinking absolutely can be fun for some people. I'm one of them. I like solving puzzles.

But I also like other things. I don't want to be spending all of my time solving puzzles when that's taking time away from other things I also want to do.

Not everyone finds THINK to be fun. They just want to relax after a stressful day doing other things. But perhaps your own ability to THINK is too narrow to understand that.

[Miracle_Diva]

I thought very much before I wrote it.

Thinking absolutely can be fun for some people. I'm one of them. I like solving puzzles.

But I also like other things. I don't want to be spending all of my time solving puzzles when that's taking time away from other things I also want to do.

Not everyone finds THINK to be fun. They just want to relax after a stressful day doing other things. But perhaps your own ability to THINK is too narrow to understand that.

Well just don't do stressful or hard content if you want to relax? But I guess we now need to cater towards "tired" people when we make games. Right.

[Shurrikhan]

I thought very much before I wrote it.

Thinking absolutely can be fun for some people. I'm one of them. I like solving puzzles.

But I also like other things. I don't want to be spending all of my time solving puzzles when that's taking time away from other things I also want to do.

Not everyone finds THINK to be fun. They just want to relax after a stressful day doing other things. But perhaps your own ability to THINK is too narrow to understand that.

"I want to relax, but I don't want to just do the things made to be relaxing, so I want the stuff that wasn't (originally) intended just to (continue to) be changed until it is similarly relaxing."

You realize this applies in the inverse, too, right? "I want to really cognitively engage in something, but I don't want to just do the content forms to which that engagement has been constrained (8-man boss arenas), so I want stuff to see some among the later iterations of content forms that haven't always been intended to be cognitively engaging to offer cognitive engagement."

But, alas, somehow the first, despite being the more reductive, is fine, while the latter would likely trigger uproar...

__________

There is content to be played while relaxing or to relax. No one is suggesting that such be removed, only that cognitive load not be increasingly restricted to Savage, Ultimates, and the occasional harder Extreme trial -- in other words, only to be found off the main road and in perfectly circular or rectangular rooms -- or divorced from the common player experience, per the trajectory of changes since the game's release, be that to the content itself or to job toolkits and playflow.

:: Many here would also add, if the game did a better job of situating its own tools (its stuff to be interacted with or made use of), engagement would be less at odds with relaxation, and vice versa.

For instance, look at endgame dungeons on ARR's release and shortly thereafter, such as pre-nerf Amdapor Keep or Pharos Sirius. Look at dungeons now.

Especially in the context of the job playflows themselves being so simplified, the norm has increasingly become one where cognitive load significant enough to be engaging for more than even just half the community is something you have to go out of your way for and is increasingly less diverse in its forms. And that trajectory appears likely to continue given the comments we've seen from the devs regarding the inevitable design constraints of "skill gap", for which they still solely blame the players, rather than their ability to facilitate or incentivize learning.

Even a request to keep things the same as they are now, then, is asking for a change to that trajectory, which others will then take as reason to get up in arms against "entitled elitists" for their wanting there to remain some semblance of diversity in content with cognitive load, or even just to not have yet another of their main jobs gutted. God forbid those "elitists" ask for further options with, for them, engaging cognitive load outside of merely perfectly circular or rectangular rooms. The horror.

Clearly, increased options in a direction that has more stuff available to interact with or make use of -- and to be used to the extent one has skill for -- would be horrid pandering to the oppressive elite. Meanwhile, steadily rounding up those forms of engagement and isolating them among Ultimate fights, while leaving the typical experience increasingly barren or shallow just so a select group doesn't feel as bad about not using the tools that would otherwise be offered them... is perfectly fine?

[Ralph2449]

Another good example of how Ion doesn't understand what the average player wants.

They're not playing the game to THINK. Most people have to spend way too much of their day thinking at their job or at school.

They're playing the game to HAVE FUN.

Oh are they gonna complain too if they get beaten in an RTS video game because "they want to have fun, they dont want to THINK"? Thinking is part of many games, mmoRPGs included.

If all they want to do is have brainless fun without thinking they should be playing some simple game where you spam 1 button to kill things and feel STRONK.

Mmorpgs were always about choosing builds of your preferred playstyle and thinking of how to use your comb's advantages to beat an encounter, if gamers these days has such a hard time thinking how to solve problems and think they can facesmash their way through everything by reading a guide, then it sounds like THE COMMUNITY is the one at fault just like i said.

MMORPGs and many other games are not designed for the "me spam 1 button, me crash enemies" crowd but sadly big games attract people who have no interest in the design of said game just so they can be part of the "popular" thing.

[Nethereal]

Oh are they gonna complain too if they get beaten in an RTS video game because "they want to have fun, they dont want to THINK"? Thinking is part of many games, mmoRPGs included.

If all they want to do is have brainless fun without thinking they should be playing some simple game where you spam 1 button to kill things and feel STRONK.

Mmorpgs were always about choosing builds of your preferred playstyle and thinking of how to use your comb's advantages to beat an encounter, if gamers these days has such a hard time thinking how to solve problems and think they can facesmash their way through everything by reading a guide, then it sounds like THE COMMUNITY is the one at fault just like i said.

MMORPGs and many other games are not designed for the "me spam 1 button, me crash enemies" crowd but sadly big games attract people who have no interest in the design of said game just so they can be part of the "popular" thing.

Actually a good post.

[Nethereal]

If THE COMMUNITY doesnt care about making their own builds and making their own meaningful choices and instead google what is best in an mmoRPG, yeah, they clearly have no clue how to play.

Just like the people brainlessly follow raid clear guides instead of thinking of their own tactics based on their own available comp and its advantages, the amount of clueless people who killed frieda first at the start in Nathria cuz the elite guide told them so when her last effect was mainly a healer/tank check which was incredibly easy to deal with if you had competent healers/tanks (Which is a lot easier to have than literally more than a dozen of mechanically competent dps) proves that, THE COMMUNITY is the problem.

Ion himself repeatedly talks about how players are meant to THINK and make decisions, instead a majority of WoW players never think and brainlessly follow guides which is why they fail so much at some points because guides cannot cover the entirety of the game and all its possible situations.


These mentors sadly feel ENTITLED to the rewards so they will instantly pretend to be the victim if they dont get their way, dealing with it is not an option for them sadly.



Fun fact, vast majority of gamers do not know how to communicate because their insecurities and dependence on video game achievements for self worth leads them to be insulting, offensive, condescending or thinking they are a great leader that should be followed and get offended when people ON THE INTERNET dont listen to their commands, like who do they think they are lmao.

Their inability to communicate is the problem which is sadly why mentors should never have been a thing outside of very select few people that have proven their ability to talk and are placed on a higher standard unlike the behavior we see here from the average mentor who is so entitled to rewards and dont want to MENTOR that it shows how flawed the entire idea is, most gamers are simply not capable of communicating and are lacking many interpersonal skills.


I mean he is merely speaking the truth, any player who goes around using the term "git gud" is instantly in that category because no mentally healthy individual that honestly wants to help uses that term because it knows it is both insulting and it shows a great deal of insecurity, like he said "smug neck beards looking down on others and refusing to help just to make their mediocre achievements feel greater"

Sadly many gamers do that because their self worth is based on video game achievements and if you dont have actual irl achievements looking down on other people in video games helps you make you feel like you have achieved something big, it is a common method of indirectly boosting one's weak ego.

[Caurcas]

It speaks to their feeling of entitlement, anyone with a functioning brain knows to never ever have high expectations of pugged groups in any game, the possibility of a slower run is always possible, but these people somehow have not only managed to have this ridiculous expectation that defies reality, they also feel ENTITLED to it lol.

I don't know Ralph, that statement is kind of entitled. All most of us want is for people to get good, which is to say actively try to overcome the obstacles in front of them and win the game, not be a passive hanger on that achieves off the backs of others. Have some pride and self worth.

[MiaShino]

Ugh.. and of course Ralph returns to grace the discussion with their interesting ideas.

People like this is the problem and why people think you are elitist. You can't even disagree without throwing a hissy fit. You also openly admit you are trolling people who don't agree with you.

The heck are you even on about? You can read can you not? But you know what, a cursory Google search told me all I ever wished to know.. perhaps too much.

Is this you? It looks like you. https://i.imgur.com/JKDrTtH.png

Niiiiice, sexist too what a peach.

You can sit there and pretend to be suuuuuch a nice person cantcha. Get some help you really really need it. You and your wife with the same fricken name on forum after forum after forum acting like spoiled children.

I do not have to strawman you or engage you in anything. I am not your wife, I gain nothing from this idiot slapping contest and was willing to ignore this or allow sleeping dogs to lay. You keep pushing buttons though, keeeeeep on pushing. Maybe others will finally ignore these narcissistic troglodytes so we can resume speaking as adults.

"Hissy fit" is a vast understatement.

[Rinhi]

Ugh.. and of course Ralph returns to grace the discussion with their interesting ideas.



The heck are you even on about? You can read can you not? But you know what, a cursory Google search told me all I ever wished to know.. perhaps too much.

Is this you? It looks like you. https://i.imgur.com/JKDrTtH.png

Niiiiice, sexist too what a peach.

You can sit there and pretend to be suuuuuch a nice person cantcha. Get some help you really really need it. You and your wife with the same fricken name on forum after forum after forum acting like spoiled children.

I do not have to strawman you or engage you in anything. I am not your wife, I gain nothing from this idiot slapping contest and was willing to ignore this or allow sleeping dogs to lay. You keep pushing buttons though, keeeeeep on pushing. Maybe others will finally ignore these narcissistic troglodytes so we can resume speaking as adults.

"Hissy fit" is a vast understatement.

"nice fake screenshot"
"it's been years ago lol"

[MiaShino]

"nice fake screenshot"
"it's been years ago lol"

PFfffffffff my poor tummy! Many thanks that made me laugh much harder than it should.

Have you seen their fricken Twitter? By the twelve..

Do I need to go and show you post history as well? Where you clearly said you was trying to get a rise out of people?

Go riiiiiight ahead cupcake.