Please implement something to teach players how to play

[OranKells]

It's hard for me to understand how people don't think this is even a thing when we have a singular thread going 30k+ posts strong that spawned a problematic subreddit about this very topic. its anecdotal sure but if you don't think this is a thing then you're probably being complained about in that very thread.

[Wavaryen]

It's hard for me to understand how people don't think this is even a thing when we have a singular thread going 30k+ posts strong that spawned a problematic subreddit about this very topic. its anecdotal sure but if you don't think this is a thing then you're probably being complained about in that very thread.

Not sure how that proves it is a problem. I mean a thread that goes on a long time that shows people get bad groups. That does not mean it is a problem. I think that is working as it should.


Bad groups are not a big deal. Requeue and get a new group. I think people are sending mix messages here. If the content is so easy, than what is the problem with people playing how they want? If you value your time so much, that a run might take 3 to 10 mins longer. Than I question if you should be playing an mmorpg.


Either way, right now the game is booming. It is doing very very well. So clearly how things are handle by square is doing something right. No need to "improve" DF quality. It is simple, and lets players enjoy playing how they want.

[Krotoan]

It's hard for me to understand how people don't think this is even a thing when we have a singular thread going 30k+ posts strong that spawned a problematic subreddit about this very topic. its anecdotal sure but if you don't think this is a thing then you're probably being complained about in that very thread.

It's not that people don't think really bad players exist. It's just we don't think these running at 5% people are as prevalent as those arguing for "standards" would have you think.


People get on the internet to complain. With a population of millions it'd be surprising if people didn't have stories about meeting a bad player every once in a while. I'm not sure if you've actually run through that thread, but it's people complaining about all kinds of problematic things. I've run with people who barely make Ilvl in 30-40ish dungeons, people who refuse or don't know how to AOE, and people who outright will eat every single mechanic. This is still not people running at 5%. The dungeon or instance gets done a little slower but it's at most a 20-30 minute thing. It's not great but it's also not the brain destroying ordeal others make it out to be.

[Gobio]

The game right now not only doesn't teach you how to play, they teach you to IGNORE mechanics.

As I made a new alt to follow the hype train, I encounter that supposed tutorial MSQ that I am supposed to dodge ground AOE and switch target to destroy bomb and NOT just hit the rock. Problem is I finish the duty first try just by hitting the rock and only remember "wait am I supposed to kill the bomb, oh well"...

[Shurrikhan]

It's not that people don't think really bad players exist. It's just we don't think these running at 5% people are as prevalent as those arguing for "standards" would have you think.

People with a given disability that needs relatively specific design aren't going to be all that common either, and yet many of the components or techniques which would address their difficulties are commonly useful to everyone.

The question should be less of "Is X population large enough to require changes?" and more, simply, "Would these provide benefit more than worth their cost?"

I really wouldn't compare accessibility considerations to enforcing how to play the game.

Having the occasional hurdle by which to prompt or reinforce learning, and generally centralize at least a modicum of competency as an expected norm, does not amount to "enforcing how to play the game".

In any other game, even other MMOs, it'd be called "a well-crafted difficulty curve" -- precisely the way any game provides ramps and bridges to being able to enjoy said game more deeply or in novel ways. Only here do we seem so eager to mislabel such as oppressive or forceful.

[Krotoan]

People with a given disability that needs relatively specific design aren't going to be all that common either, and yet many of the components or techniques which would address their difficulties are commonly useful to everyone.

I really wouldn't compare accessibility considerations to enforcing how to play the game since they're basically options so that people can even engage with the game at all AND are always a take it or leave it option, wheras what we're discussing here are ways to limit which people engage in the game.

[Wavaryen]

If this was like mythic plus in wow. Where you lose something for having a bad group. I could understand, but besides time what are you losing for having a bad group? Lets not make it out that a bad group is such a bad thing, that it needs help in not happening.

We don't need reinforce learning, and we don't need a well crafted difficulty curve. The content that can be queued up is design to be simple, and fun for people who just play how they want. It is made for them.

[Shurrikhan]

If this was like mythic plus in wow. Where you lose something for having a bad group.

Only 1 in 5 people in M+ can lose anything. The loot reduction for a failed run has been long since removed. The only "loss" unique to M+ now is for the keyholder to not increase the level of their key. You still get the Valor. You still get the loot. You still get the rating, as long as you did even a fraction better than your last run (as rating is literally just a quantitative summary of your personal bests).

The largest actual loss is just as present in XIV as in M+: time. You will have wasted time.

We don't need reinforce learning, and we don't need a well crafted difficulty curve.

We don't "need" a good game, either. But alas, they're generally far more fun to play.

[Wavaryen]

Only 1 in 5 people in M+ can lose anything. The loot reduction for a failed run has been long since removed. The only "loss" unique to M+ now is for the keyholder to not increase the level of their key. You still get the Valor. You still get the loot. You still get the rating, as long as you did even a fraction better than your last run (as rating is literally just a quantitative summary of your personal bests).

The largest actual loss is just as present in XIV as in M+: time. You will have wasted time.



We don't "need" a good game, either. But alas, they're generally far more fun to play.

I mean this is a good game? Content for all players. You want to change content for people who enjoy playing it like it is. While having options for harder content. Sorry, but no. The developers agree as well. That is why it is top dog right now, because it does not listen to silly requests.


The system they have in place is fine, what reasons does it need changing? When it has this huge of a player base and keeps growing because it caters to people who just play and the content is design to let them just play. What reasons does the developers have to listen to this feedback when clearly what they have is working.

[Shurrikhan]

people who enjoy playing it like it is.

At the expense of those they leech off, of count at only an nth the value of their own interests, all because they can't be bothered to learn even the basics, you mean? That's literally the sole group under the scope here.