Open World PvP

[Roeshel]

This is really not a good take. And yeah, just hours ago I was bashing on van_arm, Theodric, and the other guy with the weeb name (yes, I know, pot and kettle, lol) that I can't remember at the moment, due to disagreeing with virtually everything they were saying. Nevertheless, "you have to have self-esteem issues to enjoy that" is a pretty big stretch at best, and honestly, Forum Diagnoses are rarely a good idea, and tend to make the diagnoser look worse than the diagnosee.

(Yes, I'm commenting on this one even tho I mostly let the "I was going to say sociopath" comment slide. This is because the sociopath comment really came across to me as just a joke; my impression here is that Roeshel is serious about the self-esteem comment. If I'm wrong, I'm sure I will be corrected.)

No, it is not a forum diagnosis. Schadenfreude is an emotion every person has experienced at some point, it is not a mental disorder. The thing about that emotion is that it has a negative relationship with self-esteem. People with less self-esteem tend to experience it more frequently and intensely and vice versa. It is just what it is. People, who like griefing other players, think very little of themselves and tbh they are right to do so. You can't find griefing a fun activity unless you have self-esteem issues. That's the reality of it.

Nevertheless, "you have to have self-esteem issues to enjoy that" is a pretty big stretch at best

A big stretch would be to say that griefing other human beings is a fun activity and thinking or pretending that everything is fine with that person's mind. Nope, if everything was fine with him he wouldn't like doing it in the first place. Griefing is not some random activity or hobby to be generalized like you just did. You are actually causing someone else to feel miserable and you are enjoying it. You can't be sane if you do that.

[Saito_S]

No, it is not a forum diagnosis. Schadenfreude is an emotion every person has experienced at some point, it is not a mental disorder. The thing about that emotion is that it has a negative relationship with self-esteem. People with less self-esteem tend to experience it more frequently and intensely and vice versa. It is just what it is.

Okay, to clarify (and per van_arm's most recent posts basically clarifying the same thing), I was not talking about ganking people that don't want to be ganked when I pushed back against your "self-esteem" comment. I probably could have made this more clear, but I was referring to the idea of people who DO opt-in, whether by rolling on a pvp server or ticking the opt-in box or whatever. The idea that people are ganking each other, crashing events, etc. and everyone is fine with it because they all want to participate in this whole big crazy open-world pvp system. That's what (as far as I can tell) van_arm was talking about when he insisted that some people enjoy that kind of environment, and that's what I thought you were referring to when you said "you need to have low self-esteem to enjoy this." The people getting ganked or getting their wedding crashed, etc. wouldn't seriously have a problem with it... because next week, those same people might be the ones doing the ganking and crashing.

If we are talking about literally just pure open-world pvp that is forced on everyone, with no opt-in, then yeah. I agree with you then (to a point). Enjoying ganking folks and killing gatherers and crashing events when the people you are attacking do not want to be a part of it? That's just asshole-ish. Of course, in that scenario, some blame would have to go to the devs for making the game like that and allowing it to happen. Fortunately, there is basically zero chance of non-opt-in open world pvp being added to FFXIV.

People, who like griefing other players, think very little of themselves and tbh they are right to do so. You can't find griefing a fun activity unless you have self-esteem issues. That's the reality of it.
A big stretch would be to say that griefing other human beings is a fun activity and thinking or pretending that everything is fine with that person's mind. Nope, if everything was fine with him he wouldn't like doing it in the first place. Griefing is not some random activity or hobby to be generalized like you just did. You are actually causing someone else to feel miserable and you are enjoying it. You can't be sane if you do that.

This is why I said "to a point". Call them assholes or trolls or bullies, question their morals, sure. But saying "you like this, therefore, you have low self-esteem" is LITERALLY a forum diagnoses since "low self-esteem" is a psychological condition that you are concluding they have. I'll call out bully-types all day and say that I think they're crass and that it's screwed up that they find enjoyment in making other people miserable. I just don't like ascribing behavior observed in a fellow player of an online game to a specific mental state without some evidence.