Open World PvP

[Eldevern]

The funny thing is... all Open PVP MMO ends to fail because of the flaw this systen has : you can't mix PVE quests and PVP. You have to make a choice PVP or PVE but don't mix them. They solve it with... "PVP servers" in order to survive and... most of time you see many more PVE servers than PVP ones. Or they add opt-in... and most players chose to remain out.

There's nothing worst than PK when people are doing the MSQ. People just leave the game. It will not make "empty" old maps more populated. It will only lead people to go away from the game.

SE made the right choice for FFXIV.

[Jojoya]

If anything what could help re-populate zones are Daily quests, world events, PVE things that give an incentive to go out and make use of the world and the enemies in it.

When I see comments like this, I know the poster doesn't go out into the world at all.

Zones are populated now. They're very populated right now. I'm on a low pop (for NA) server and I see players all over the place whether it's when I'm out scouting to run a hunt train in Shadowbringers zones, grinding daily bills in HW and SB zones so I can buy more Aetheryte tickets on alts, gathering materials just about anywhere or leveling up my latest alt I started just 10 days ago.

Just because the content in the zones does not appeal to you as a level cap player does not mean the zones lack for content or lack for players doing that content.

MSQ
Side quests
FATEs
Treasure Maps
Hunts
Gathering
Beast tribes
Sightseeing Log
Leves

If those things don't interest you, then they don't interest you but that content still exists and is still getting used by other players.

Now imagine dumping open world PvP on top of all that. What do you honestly think would happen?

You would end up with new players quitting the game as soon as they start because other players would be out to make certain they never get a chance to enjoy any of that content or progress their characters.

This isn't WOW where you could dungeon grind your way all the way to level cap if you want once you complete the starting racial zone. You can avoid the open world until you were ready to join the gank squads and that's what most players would do on the more balanced contested worlds.

Here players must engage with the open world to level because they can't unlock content without doing MSQ and MSQ requires doing content in the open world.

We have no lore to explain why open world PvP would exist, unlike WoW with the story rooted in the Horde/Alliance conflict. The Grand Companies are not at war with each other and Garlemald is not a playable faction. How do you explain killing each other?

Like I said in the early part of the thread, you're the WoL and if the WoL goes rogue the GCs would have no choice but to terminate him/her because that sort of power can't go unchecked. Has it dawned on anyone that the Scions stick with the WoL not just because they're working toward a common goal but because if the WoL did go rogue, they would likely be the ones tasked with bringing him/her down? They have faith we will choose to do the "right" thing but you can also be sure they're prepared if we don't.

Again, I don't have any objection to SE creating open world PvP specific worlds as long as open world PvP would have zero impact on my game experience. But I also don't see it working out in practice. Game lore and leveling design do not support it.

What do I think would be a better idea? For SE to create an offshoot PvP game based on the truncated timeline from the Eighth Umbral Calamity. Open world PvP would make sense with what we know of that timeline. An offshoot game could import the existing jobs, races and zones from this game though future changes to this game wouldn't reflect in that one since it's a divergent timeline as of the moment the WoL touches the beacon that takes him/her from the Crystal Tower to the First. Perhaps players could even import their character models and any purely cosmetic items such as mounts.

[SturmChurro]

MSQ
Side quests
FATEs
Treasure Maps
Hunts
Gathering
Beast tribes
Sightseeing Log
Leves

I don't see anything here worth doing, or I've already done it.

[Kyuuen]

I don't see anything here worth doing, or I've already done it.

What then when someone already has the rewards or what they want from OW PvP or that they've already done it? Can't say one thing about one side of the coin while ignoring the other.

[SturmChurro]

What then when someone already has the rewards or what they want from OW PvP or that they've already done it? Can't say one thing about one side of the coin while ignoring the other.

PvP is in essence, a dynamic experience. Every player you encounter can be at a different skill level; there is challenge, and excitement. That's what makes PvP, and PvP oriented games interesting to me. Rewards for a good experience are simply a bonus.

[Roeshel]

This is really not a good take. And yeah, just hours ago I was bashing on van_arm, Theodric, and the other guy with the weeb name (yes, I know, pot and kettle, lol) that I can't remember at the moment, due to disagreeing with virtually everything they were saying. Nevertheless, "you have to have self-esteem issues to enjoy that" is a pretty big stretch at best, and honestly, Forum Diagnoses are rarely a good idea, and tend to make the diagnoser look worse than the diagnosee.

(Yes, I'm commenting on this one even tho I mostly let the "I was going to say sociopath" comment slide. This is because the sociopath comment really came across to me as just a joke; my impression here is that Roeshel is serious about the self-esteem comment. If I'm wrong, I'm sure I will be corrected.)

No, it is not a forum diagnosis. Schadenfreude is an emotion every person has experienced at some point, it is not a mental disorder. The thing about that emotion is that it has a negative relationship with self-esteem. People with less self-esteem tend to experience it more frequently and intensely and vice versa. It is just what it is. People, who like griefing other players, think very little of themselves and tbh they are right to do so. You can't find griefing a fun activity unless you have self-esteem issues. That's the reality of it.

Nevertheless, "you have to have self-esteem issues to enjoy that" is a pretty big stretch at best

A big stretch would be to say that griefing other human beings is a fun activity and thinking or pretending that everything is fine with that person's mind. Nope, if everything was fine with him he wouldn't like doing it in the first place. Griefing is not some random activity or hobby to be generalized like you just did. You are actually causing someone else to feel miserable and you are enjoying it. You can't be sane if you do that.

[van_arn]

No, it is not a forum diagnosis. Schadenfreude is an emotion every person has experienced at some point, it is not a mental disorder. The thing about that emotion is that it has a negative relationship with self-esteem. People with less self-esteem tend to experience it more frequently and intensely and vice versa. It is just what it is. People, who like griefing other players, think very little of themselves and tbh they are right to do so. You can't find griefing a fun activity unless you have self-esteem issues. That's the reality of it.



A big stretch would be to say that griefing other human beings is a fun activity and thinking or pretending that everything is fine with that person's mind. Nope, if everything was fine with him he wouldn't like doing it in the first place. Griefing is not some random activity or hobby to be generalized like you just did. You are actually causing someone else to feel miserable and you are enjoying it. You can't be sane if you do that.

You’re fundamentally mistaken in seeing ganking someone on a pvp server or someone that has otherwise opened themselves for pvp as griefing.

You are literally giving them what they signed up for. If they’re unprepared, you’re giving them exactly what they should expect.

That’s what’s so fun about being attacked. Unexpected things happen, you need to take into consideration the possibility of attack while you’re planning activities or gameplay, and sometimes your best plans collapse and you spend the night plotting your revenge.

Instead of getting upset over someone making you feel a sad and writing a page in a report, the system gives you all the tools you need to create a bitter rivalries or steadfast alliances.

It’s storytelling if you can understand it.

[van_arn]

What then when someone already has the rewards or what they want from OW PvP or that they've already done it? Can't say one thing about one side of the coin while ignoring the other.

If you don’t want to get ganked then don’t participate in it. That means don’t sign up for it by means of playing the game that requires it, joining the server that enables it, or opting into the system that enables it.

[Caurcas]

Open world pvp is also a goldmine for RPers, and gives them narrative possibilities beyond the illegal rp they engage in currently.

[Bright-Flower]

Open world pvp is also a goldmine for RPers, and gives them narrative possibilities beyond the illegal rp they engage in currently.

Yeah I've seen too much 'pvp rp' back on WoW on emerald ream to ever want to see it here.