Open World PvP

[linayar]

There are quite a few games my friends enjoy, that I don't enjoy. You know what I do? I don't play with them. It's okay! Those games aren't for me, just like PvP might not be for some players!

They aren't "locked" on a PvP server, there are DOZENS of other worlds players can join, plus there would be house openings with the players transferring to the PvP world, not to mention Oceania being added. For that matter, it's very rude if there would be players who have no interest in a potential PvP world's premise, join that world and complain about "forced PvP", and on top of that take up actual PvPer's housing. That's just my opinion though.

Nevertheless, it becomes a consideration for some and it's unnecessary when there is no need to make a PvP server when adding servers is a huge deal for SE. It's a wasted effort when every new server could serve everyone.

If you want to PvP on a PvP server, play a game that has it. Even WoW doesn't have PvP servers any more.

[linayar]

You are not "segregating availability" The pvp server gets the same number of houses any other server gets. They don't have any bonus nothing is locked in there and no one is locking anything. You are free to join it or not.

I know many people dislike to hear this but not everyone is meant to have a house. That's why there isn't infinite houses and that's why houses open first to FCs and that's why there are apartments there is no "shortage" there is meant to be the exact number of houses there is. The idea that "Everyone is supposed to own a house" is made up. but this is completely different argument.

So the pvp world should not have housing? Because Why? Any other server has one. Let's shut down the whole world because they have housing and I can't have piece of it and my server's housing is full.
There number of players vary across DCs does that mean you are ""segregating availability" by adding housing to other DCs but you can't play on it because your ping is high?

PvP server should not have housing? That's not what I'm saying. There should be no PvP server when a new server could benefit everyone, not just those who want to PvP.

[TheVigilant]

Just for those who don't know how open world PvP currently works in WoW, there is no such thing as a PvP server anymore since two expansions already and there is a PvP mode called War Mode for all servers instead.
Players with PvP mode turned on are phased in their own world, they can only see those with the PvP mode turned on so those with the PvP mode turned off are unable to see and interact with those with PvP mode on.
There is also a few incentives to having the PvP mode enabled.
What it gives when enabled:

• Access to all PvP talents (PvP skills and abilities) in the outdoor world, regardless of being engaged in PvP combat or not.
• +10% experience boost while leveling.
• +10% World Quest (they're like FATE) reward bonuses at max level.
• Ability to earn Conquest Points (PvP experience), which count towards a weekly progress bar for special gear rewards.
• Completion of PvP achievements.

Turning the PvP mode on would require one to be in the main city (like Ul'dah, Limsa Lominsa and Gridania) and turning it off can be done anywhere provided one is out of combat.

Many players play with PvP mode turned off and enjoy the game just fine.

[NW3]

Just for those who don't know how open world PvP currently works in WoW, there is no such thing as a PvP server anymore since two expansions already and there is a PvP mode called War Mode for all servers instead.
Players with PvP mode turned on are phased in their own world, they can only see those with the PvP mode turned on so those with the PvP mode turned off are unable to see and interact with those with PvP mode on.
There is also a few incentives to having the PvP mode enabled.
What it gives when enabled:

• Access to all PvP talents (PvP skills and abilities) in the outdoor world, regardless of being engaged in PvP combat or not.
• +10% experience boost while leveling.
• +10% World Quest (they're like FATE) reward bonuses at max level.
• Ability to earn Conquest Points (PvP experience), which count towards a weekly progress bar for special gear rewards.
• Completion of PvP achievements.

Turning the PvP mode on would require one to be in the main city (like Ul'dah, Limsa Lominsa and Gridania) and turning it off can be done anywhere provided one is out of combat.

Many players play with PvP mode turned off and enjoy the game just fine.

This is how New World does it too and it's fun as hell. Everybody wins. And you know what? Let's say you're curious about PvP just once. You can turn it on too. You might even win your fight.

Don't even need PvP worlds just the ability to flag it like WoW and New World. I kept mine on at times when exploring because who cares if you die. Today dying from PvP has no penalty - unlike the past. You die a lot in every video game you play. Get over it.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

Just for those who don't know how open world PvP currently works in WoW, there is no such thing as a PvP server anymore since two expansions already and there is a PvP mode called War Mode for all servers instead.

I will say a few things about warmode.

1- It's basically dead, since Alliance don't use it because of how vastly outnumbered they are (just check out the war mode forum- it's basically Horde guilds trying to brag about their exploits in an echo chamber that the other side left five years ago)

2- It would require SE to implement phasing as well as some sort of cross realm world (or you wouldn't get wpvp at all if every single world had their own warmode version)- either way, you'd need to put in a new technology just for it, or, double the amount of servers for something that likely would see minimal use... clearly a massive undertaking either way

3- It absolutely did nothing to eliminate complaints about wpvp or the toxicity. At first it was full of Alliance complaining that they were camped everywhere, then Horde complaining that Alliance had too many incentives for being the smaller faction, then Alliance complaining because they were always so outnumbered they couldn't do anything while Horde basically got a permanent 10% buff. Then more complaints about Maw wpvp despite it being a feature you could turn off- and Blizz had to make changes to the Maw specifically for people who were complaining about being killed while using a feature they could turn off at any point. No matter how optional you make wpvp, it still ends up being a massive headache for everyone.

4- I feel like the incentives only made people who don't want to wpvp do it, which only led to a lot of the problems it has had.

[Jojoya]

2- It would require SE to implement phasing as well as some sort of cross realm world (or you wouldn't get wpvp at all if every single world had their own warmode version)- either way, you'd need to put in a new technology just for it, or, double the amount of servers for something that likely would see minimal use... clearly a massive undertaking either way.

We get three instances of zones at times every expansion now. At the start of Shadowbringers, it was every new zone (including Crystarium and Eulmore) plus Mor Dhona. Later patches we saw it limited to a smaller number of zones. Right now, the Rising Stones is the only zone running multiple instances (probably because of the massive wall of 5.55 cutscenes that occur when our character is there).

I doubt it would need any major new technology, just a way to make one of those instances (and any player who enters it) marked for PvP. Teleport to a zone and you automatically get placed in one of the non-PvP instances. Use the Aetheryte to select Instance PvP instead of Instance 1, Instance 2 or Instance 3.

But I also doubt it would work using instances on all worlds like that. The population that would actively participate in world PvP would be too diluted. There would need to be PvP designated worlds so those players could find each other. And if world visit between non-PvP and PvP worlds was allowed, the population would be diluted even further as those who want to be doing things other than world PvP would simply hop over to another world. The only ones left would be the ones who want to PvP.

At that point, what's the real difference between open world PvP and instanced PvP? You've got a FFA/brawl mode with no one doing anything else. Might as well just make it a separate zone with terrain that can be used for tactical purposes and allows players to enter and leave at will (somewhat like Diadem, Eureka, BSF and Zadnor).

[ElciaDeiLinus]

But I also doubt it would work using instances on all worlds like that. The population that would actively participate in world PvP would be too diluted. There would need to be PvP designated worlds so those players could find each other. And if world visit between non-PvP and PvP worlds was allowed, the population would be diluted even further as those who want to be doing things other than world PvP would simply hop over to another world. The only ones left would be the ones who want to PvP.

At that point, what's the real difference between open world PvP and instanced PvP? You've got a FFA/brawl mode with no one doing anything else. Might as well just make it a separate zone with terrain that can be used for tactical purposes and allows players to enter and leave at will (somewhat like Diadem, Eureka, BSF and Zadnor).

I think it may need some tweaking if they wanted to wpvp zones to have pvp abilities/gear/levels for balance- though that feels like that runs contrary to wpvp, which generally differs from instanced pvp in that it doesn't have balance.

I think the point about every server having their own wpvp zone is a pretty valid one- which is why I bring up the concern about it being something with minimal interest. If not many people use it, it ends up being wasted effort from SE. But, if not many people use it- it also ends up not being a good wpvp experience for those who want it, because they'll never see anyone to pvp with. That's one of the big issues with warmode in WoW- it's all Horde everywhere, Alliance don't do it because they just get ganged up on, Horde who want wpvp though don't actually get any.

Of course- in this game would it be FFA pvp, or would it be red v yellow v brown?

If they put in wpvp, and wanted it to have engagement- I think it'd have to be a single realm people could visit, or something like in ESO/GW2 where it's basically a massive, persistent instanced pvp zone.

[Jojoya]

I think it may need some tweaking if they wanted to wpvp zones to have pvp abilities/gear/levels for balance- though that feels like that runs contrary to wpvp, which generally differs from instanced pvp in that it doesn't have balance.

I think the point about every server having their own wpvp zone is a pretty valid one- which is why I bring up the concern about it being something with minimal interest. If not many people use it, it ends up being wasted effort from SE. But, if not many people use it- it also ends up not being a good wpvp experience for those who want it, because they'll never see anyone to pvp with. That's one of the big issues with warmode in WoW- it's all Horde everywhere, Alliance don't do it because they just get ganged up on, Horde who want wpvp though don't actually get any.

Of course- in this game would it be FFA pvp, or would it be red v yellow v brown?

If they put in wpvp, and wanted it to have engagement- I think it'd have to be a single realm people could visit, or something like in ESO/GW2 where it's basically a massive, persistent instanced pvp zone.

I think it would end up FFA, with players only being immune to "friendly fire" if in the same party/Alliance. Can't use GC affiliation as the basis because the GCs aren't at war with each other. SE had to stretch to come up with the war games rationale for the instanced PvP modes as it is.

Since this game doesn't have farming spots, big open world bosses, or some kind of territory control, fight for resources and random ganking will be the only reason to open world PvP. I have no idea why anyone would want that.

Some players just want to fight other players. They find it fun. You can't really argue with their subjective preferences.

I don't think open world PvP in this game would give them the experience they are imagining, though. It's essentially player created content, which means you need enough players interested in doing it. SE cannot force players to participate or they lose the buik of the payer that has no interest in world PvP.