Mentor Roulette should have longer lockout time

[Baxcel]

Two points. One, most the mechanics you see in old EXs you also see in story trials and normal mode raids so doing old EXs for "experience" is moot. Two, you are forced into this content with a neutered, half missing kit. Gameplay at level 50 and 60 these day is bad and unfun, and a player is missing many key abilities that make a job fun. I can over look this in a story trial or normal mode raid because five minutes and I am done. With an old EX you can be forced into this neutered gameplay loop for 30 minutes plus.

Again people find handicaps and challenges fun too.. that's why we have people beating Dark Souls with a DDR pad or a Gutar Hero controller lol..

But to each their own.. my main point in this entire thread is that mentors should be held responsible for the trails and challenges they recieve when using mentor roulette and if they aren't or won't then they honestly need to not use that roulette or retire their crowns.

[Tlamila]

Anyway guys, what comes out of this thread is: only Yoshi-P and Jesus are qualified to be mentors. Common mortals aren't worthy.

[van_arn]

Anyway guys, what comes out of this thread is: only Yoshi-P and Jesus are qualified to be mentors. Common mortals aren't worthy.

The problem is -- and has always been -- people putting mentors on a pedestal.

Mentors tend to be especially bad about it.

[Vahlnir]

as I've said in my other posts anytime I've been in a synced Ex trial it's been a clear regardless of the other mentors that have sandbagged or straight up abandoned the group.. even if I would of gotten a trial that lasted for the full lockout I'd still stay the entire time and try an help and teach.. part of the agreement we signed when we asked to be mentors..

It took some time, heck, I even helped with an Odin Ex and I think a Shiva Ex clear which both went surprisingly well, but ultimately the Thordan Ex I spoke of earlier in this thread broke me and I haven't touched the roulette since, even though I had access to it for awhile after. It's a two way street. Sure, we are there to help, but players also need to want it for things to work. Personally, I abandoned that roulette and never looked back. I can help out in other ways without losing my sanity. If there's questions in NN that need answering, I will. If someone in a dungeon or raid asks for tips, I will give them some tips provided someone hasn't beaten me to the punch already. I will also help clear various things through the PF. None of these things feel like I'm wasting my time, unlike the Mentor Roulette, and it is hopefully doing some good. That is what I signed up for, not queueing for some random roulette. Regardless, they have to ask for it, because as I said...they have to want it. I will not be bending over backwards for lost causes since I value my time and I respect the time of those around me. They don't deserve such treatment either. I'm certainly not wearing my crown anymore though, since that thing has gotten me nothing but trouble. No matter how politely I gave advice, I was basically seen as the "lolmentor". The only place it is visible is in the NN.

[LianaThorne]

First you need to calm down a bit.. you'll get yourself banned for the langue your using and we don't want that.. this is a discussion not a brawl.

2nd im also a mentor, all be it a crafting one as I'm still working on my commendations again.. as I've said in my other posts anytime I've been in a synced Ex trial it's been a clear regardless of the other mentors that have sandbagged or straight up abandoned the group.. even if I would of gotten a trial that lasted for the full lockout I'd still stay the entire time and try an help and teach.. part of the agreement we signed when we asked to be mentors..

Lastly no one has call you a mount or something to carry.. thats what dungeons are for honestly a trial is a team thing.. sure we can make it with 1 or 2 not pulling their weight but are you going to personally join that spouts Ex PF for a synced trial after you tell them to try there? Probably not.. your going tell them to sit in PF for hours waiting for people to help or find members when they were already in the trial when you abandoned them.. without even trying..

So good luck honestly you don't wanna help in the trial you got you probably don't wanna join a synced PF what do you want from being a mentor then if you don't wanna do the stuff you get from the roulette ?

1. Nice threat.

2. If YOU want to dedicate x amount of time to teaching the same group, that is entirely your choice. It is a VOLUNTARY position, none of us are getting paid to do anything. Therefore, how we mentor is entirely up to the individual person. Might want to accept that fact instead of treating it like your way is only proper way of doing things.

3. What we join to help with is also entirely up to us and I'm not sure where you're getting hours of wait time from with PF. Outside of really select stuff (like myth strat for E9S for example which I've personally had a couple hours wait for), PFs fill up quickly. There is also a MASSIVE influx of new players from WoW and other places with Endwalker coming who are also going to be looking to clear the content. Have a little bit of patience, there are literally THOUSANDS of people playing the game at any time, if not TENS of thousands. A party will be formed and you'll get your clear and if not you keep trying. That's how life works.

4. I do join sync'd PFs and also assist with teaching through the PF. Currently I help with fresh progs in Diamond Ex. Please don't throw your baseless assumptions at me like you have any idea who I am in game.

[Baxcel]

1. Nice threat.

2. If YOU want to dedicate x amount of time to teaching the same group, that is entirely your choice. It is a VOLUNTARY position, none of us are getting paid to do anything. Therefore, how we mentor is entirely up to the individual person. Might want to accept that fact instead of treating it like your way is only proper way of doing things.

3. What we join to help with is also entirely up to us and I'm not sure where you're getting hours of wait time from with PF. Outside of really select stuff (like myth strat for E9S for example which I've personally had a couple hours wait for), PFs fill up quickly. There is also a MASSIVE influx of new players from WoW and other places with Endwalker coming who are also going to be looking to clear the content. Have a little bit of patience, there are literally THOUSANDS of people playing the game at any time, if not TENS of thousands. A party will be formed and you'll get your clear and if not you keep trying. That's how life works.

4. I do join sync'd PFs and also assist with teaching through the PF. Currently I help with fresh progs in Diamond Ex. Please don't throw your baseless assumptions at me like you have any idea who I am in game.

1) was being serious I'm not going report you just giving a heads up.

2)I can an do, that for new players and some of my FC members who wanna do it synced for the first time, as said below your killing the queue by leaving if your the only mentor there.

3)but I'm asking.. if you tell someone to do it in PF.. say it's Ifirit Ex.. are you going to join that PF and help with the advice you gave or are you going to just forget them an requeue for mentor hoping for easy content?

4)not what we're talking about.. Diamond is current content in Raid Finder.. were talking EXs from Stormblood an eariler.. are you joining synced Exs from those? Because you can't unsync Diamond..

5)you didn't answer my last question.. if your not going to teach new players rotations or mechincs or anything that might take more then 20mim of your time.. what are you getting out of being a mentor? What are you a mentor for if your not mentoring new players.?

[LianaThorne]

snip

Again:
- Mentors are here to offer advice, not play the game for you. Personally when I run with other mentors, one in particular likes to say: "Oh you aren't using x skill, you might want to check your tooltips or watch a video afterwards on how all of your skills work."

Because here's the thing: By taking 10-20m to teach someone their rotation, you're literally holding up every single other person in the party as well. You're concerned about dead queues but not about wasting other people's time because "you" want a one-on-one tutoring session in content or expect one. You get where the one-sidedness you have keeps coming up? What is stopping you from looking up your rotation after the dungeon/trial/whatev (after a mentor says you should) and practicing on a dummy (there are public ones in the overworld) to get better with it? NOTHING.

In relation to your PF question that I already answered, it's up to me. Same as it would be up to you or any other person. If I wanted to do Ifrit Ex, yeah I would join the PF because they tend to be quicker and odds are would get other people who already cleared to make the process faster. If I didn't want to do Ifrit Ex, I would requeue and re-evaluate from there. As I said already, if the group is willing to listen and actively work to take my advice, I will be more than happy to stay and teach. I just don't waste my time on groups who literally can't get it together or scream at me for trying to help. If I was getting paid, I would stay there for hours regardless of that fact.

I'd like to also say that teaching does not equal hand-holding/playing the game for you. In school, your teacher explains the concept of how to do something and gives examples to back up that foundation. In the case of an Ex trial (since you're basing it on that), this would be explaining mechanics and then having the group pull to get a physical example of what is being said. This is also the period for students to ask questions on the material being taught in case they are confused. After the lesson, the teacher usually assigns homework for the student to do to help reinforce everything they learned during the lesson (If no clear, this would be the mentor telling the people having issues to continue watching videos on the run or skills guides if they're having issues with their rotation). No-where in that process does it say that the teacher stops the entire class to teach one person something entirely specific (a.k.a. rotation) to them for 10-20m+ and delay the time they have available to teach (since things are timed in FF and people do leave after it ends). Usually they offer to have that student come after class for extra tutoring (and I do know of mentors who have offered/had sprouts reach out to ask them questions/have them mentor them one-on-one AFTER the dungeon/trial/raid/whatever).

Again, you're expecting people to stop everything for you to teach you something entirely specific to you during content that everyone else is also dedicating time to. I'm not going to turn it into Monk 101 (just as an example) and make everyone else sit through it and wait till the person knows their rotation. I'm going to direct them to a skills guide or a photo of their opener/rotation and get back to the point of why we're all there: to clear the content.

[HestiaOmori]

5)you didn't answer my last question.. if your not going to teach new players rotations or mechincs or anything that might take more then 20mim of your time.. what are you getting out of being a mentor? What are you a mentor for if your not mentoring new players.?

if i have to teach you have to 1 2 3 you shouldnt be in an EX trial in the first place

[Vahlnir]

if i have to teach you have to 1 2 3 you shouldnt be in an EX trial in the first place

Yeah...if someone asks me for rotation advice, I will do what I can, but ultimately I'd probably point them in the direction of Youtube for one of the many job guides available there. Heck, I do that for myself as needed. I'm not great at explaining these things, and I don't want to lead someone astray because of that. For me, the most responsible thing I can do is to send them somewhere that CAN help them and probably do a better job. I realize that "watch a vid" or "read a guide" are almost meme material nowadays, but that doesn't mean it's a wrong thing to suggest.

[Reinha]

For me, the most responsible thing I can do is to send them somewhere that CAN help them and probably do a better job. I realize that "watch a vid" or "read a guide" are almost meme material nowadays, but that doesn't mean it's a wrong thing to suggest.

I have a similar approach. I tell them that they will find better parties in PF and that watching a guide beforehand is more efficient than having someone explain it to them while the timer is ticking. Blind runs are fine but if you want the tips it's better to just watch a detailed recording. I link a text guide they can read afterwards if they want, and copy paste some key mechanics in the chat. They don't read it but it's there.

People who complain about "go read a guide" being lazy have forgotten that it's better to teach a man how to fish. The next time he is hungry he won't need handouts to feed himself.