Are the numbers too high?

[Kaeko]

First off, the "stats don't matter" mantra is kind of misleading because you're right, neither of us are actually arguing for this. I'm sorry it came off that way (rereading it, it definitely does so I apologize).

What I am arguing though, is the idea that "big numbers" somehow make the current gains we see any less effective. The part that you wrote that I really latched onto was this:

Thats what I'm saying....
If your attack is 40... then +4 is a 10 percent increase
If your attack is 588... the +4 attack is laughable

Lets do a comparison... with my same Lancer
Damage Output
Fully geared 151
Nude, wearing only Ifrit Harpoon 151

Attack
Fully geared 588
Nude wearing only Ifrit Harpoon 532

Strength
Fully Geared 296
Nude wearing only Ifrit Harpoon 256

Piety
Fully geared 276
Nude wearing only Ifrit Harpoon 235

Magic Defense (Everything Ifrit does is Magic Damage, accept the swipes that only hit the tank)
Fully Geared 356 fire resistence
Wearing only the Ifrit Harpoon 356 Fire resistence

And THAT is why people can beat Ifrit Naked

The ONLY THING I get from Gear is defense....
which, even for the tank, does very little against Ifrit anyway

And as far as the damage stats... Damage Output is by far the most important....
Stats matter... they're just so high that its difficult to bring about a noticeable change

Bolded red for emphasis.

I posted to really pinpoint this argument, but probably digressed too much into Moogle/Ifrit. From what I can gather from your first couple replies, you are stating that somehow the stats being a high number requires the increases to be substantially larger (basically a scaling argument). And the crux of my response is this is a common argument that holds absolutely true in XI mechanics due to how the internal formulas work, but not in XIV.

Moving to smaller numbers doesn't inherently fix anything other than give the appearance that your +3 X stat is now more meaningful. This is because of linear gain. Let's use ATK and DEF for example since it was brought up in an earlier post. You take a R50 GLA with 650 DEF (basic gear) out to stronghold and he may take around 70 damage a shot from a R50-R52 mob. You increase defense to 750 (a 15% increase in total DEF), and you'll see that damage drop to 35ish (or a 50% decrease in damage). The reason this happens is due to linearity of the formula. For every DEF you add, you get X damage reduction. So the fact you started with 650 doesn't really change anything.

The reason I mentioned that the stat formulas were "elegant" has to do with prevention of overpowered builds. Because just about every stat increases so readily with rank, it prevents a player from generally being able to do something crazy like solo an R80 mob (there are still ways to do this, but that's another discussion entirely). It adds inherent balance.

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Specifically regarding your reply, the general 'feel' I get from it is that you want the stat increases from gear to influence the outcome of fights more (correct me if I'm wrong or point me to any specific line you'd want a specific response to). This I think is a valid argument but I would consider that more a function of the fights themselves than stats. From what I gather, what you really want are "gear check" fights in XIV.

For instance, if you want the 10 min moogle achievement, you're probably going to need at least a couple of those moderately well geared Ifrit Bow archers. The fastest Moogle time I've seen was 7:42, but you can leisurely complete the non-speed run Moogle in 15+ minutes with half the DD potential. Lots of leeway. If SE had made the fight more difficult (say made it 10 minutes to win, not 10 minutes to get a reward-less achievement), gear would be more of a necessity. The theoretical change I just mentioned here is typically called a "gear check" fight. There are no gear check fights that have additional rewards in XIV right now since speed runs don't reward you with anything in game.

Perhaps the real push for change should be adding rewards to more difficult side achievements. Take Moogle again. You can win in 30 minutes like normal and have a shot at a weapon. But if you complete the 10 minute achievement, you get another item (I don't know, a crown or something). Can take this further. Say they started keeping track of "record times" like XI did, but at the end of every week, the 8 players that go the best record time got something. This would add incentive to "1-up your competition" while giving casuals wins. But again, this isn't even about stats anymore then.

These posts get too long and I know they are a pain to read so I'll cut it off here. I'll end again by just saying it's a community forum so all opinions should be welcome and I respect yours.