Fix Housing Megathread

[Catstab]

When a handful of players control a ward... that's a problem.

Agree to disagree.

The behavior you describe was legal when done, and all players on the game had an equal opportunity to claim these houses. The people who claimed them chose to, the people who did not claim them also chose. We are all now lying in the beds we made.

The initial system design should have been tight enough that this problem should have never been allowed to occur in the first place.

Sure, and the titanic should've turned left, in hindsight.

Personal housing at all was a mistake if the idea was that is was for FCs only. Yoshi P should have told us to wait for apartments when we begged for personals. Cutting house prices from 50 million to 3 million just meant that everyone who could afford a house under the old system could now afford 16 houses. And surprise, they bought them.

[Almagnus1]

Sure, and the titanic should've turned left, in hindsight.

Personal housing at all was a mistake if the idea was that is was for FCs only. Yoshi P should have told us to wait for apartments when we begged for personals. Cutting house prices from 50 million to 3 million just meant that everyone who could afford a house under the old system could now afford 16 houses. And surprise, they bought them.

And when you have identified a problem that occurred, you fix it (if possible). In this case, it's entirely possible to do so by enticing players to release their excess housing (aka the carrot) or after sufficient amount of time force the issue on the ones that don't want to (aka the stick).

The implementation to the solution needs not be immediate... it may take several years to roll out, and as long as we get there in the end... I don't really care how it happens as long as the issue is dealt with and will never reappear.

[Catstab]

the issue is dealt with and will never reappear.

The issue is dealt with. Guidelines were added in 2018. You are fully aware they exist, as you've linked them before.

Grandfathered houses will never increase in number, and continue to decrease as their owners move on from housing entirely. If you want a good carrot for housing enthusiasts you should get into game design, and woo them away that way.

[Almagnus1]

The issue is dealt with. Guidelines were added in 2018. You are fully aware they exist, as you've linked them before.

No it's not. We still have grandfathered in houses, shell FCs, and people owning wards. They are tying up scarce resources that's preventing hundreds of players from participating in housing.

you should get into game design

While I find the discipline interesting, ultimately, I do not like working in the video game interesting because the pay is bad, the hours are long, and you can get let go for doing nothing wrong because marketing didn't do their job correctly.

[Catstab]

grandfathered in houses

Quite deliberately allowed. The majority of the population applauds the decision, as well.

If you truly do not understand why this decision is beneficial, let's use a comparative example.

hypothetical:
Player A cares about their 8 characters and their 8 houses. Each character has a house decorated to just their liking. Some are libraries, some are dungeons, some are gyms, and some are studies. SE says "I know we said in 2018 you could keep those, and you earned them fairly through hours of gameplay, but we're taking all but one of them. Choose." Player A is heartbroken and quits ff14.
Player B cares about their 8 jobs and their 8 glams. Each job has a glam suited to the feel of its gameplay. Some look suited to workbenches, some to battlefields, and some to high fashion. SE says "I know we originally folded all jobs into one character, and you have earned gear for every job on this character, but we've decided it's now 1 job per character like any other MMO. Choose." Player B is heartbroken and quits ff14.

Either of these changes would detract from players enjoyment of the game and probably cost SE money.

shell FCs

Technically allowed as well.

While 4 people are needed to buy a house for an FC, only 1 member is required to retain or relocate an FC house. Changes to this system would have to be applied carefully - otherwise anyone who can kick people (or enough people leaving) can effectively demolish the house and disband the FC. This would be an intolerable side effect.

people owning wards

This is two separate issues, actually, so I'll discuss them separately for you.

1. It is of note that you need 8 player accounts to own a ward. So it's totally impossible for a single player to own a ward. Since 8 player accounts cost 8 subscriptions, those 8 player accounts have the same rights as any other 8 player accounts, even if one real life person owns each of them.

2. Now as for the house per account limit, should one player account be able to hold 8 FCs? SE sees merit in any character being able to accept leadership of any FC, as evidenced by the way the system works. I see merit in this, too. Inactive players are always stripped of FC leadership after 30 days, and a 'block' would be a problem here. Likewise if an FC leader is quitting and wishes to relinquish to their sole member, a 'block' would be a problem. Obviously, a system limiting FC leadership transfer would also have to be very carefully implemented.

So: Grandfathering, not going anywhere. FCs, definitely some discussion to be had, but changes would need to be VERY careful to not to harm the casual player.

[Almagnus1]

Edit:
NOTE: I'm quoting myself throughout this post because Catstab has broken up the first sentence of the post they responded to and without my quotes it makes Catstab's quotes lose context.

Player A cares about their 8 characters and their 8 houses. Each character has a house decorated to just their liking. Some are libraries, some are dungeons, some are gyms, and some are studies. SE says "I know we said in 2018 you could keep those, and you earned them fairly through hours of gameplay, but we're taking all but one of them. Choose." Player A is heartbroken and quits ff14.

And your still ignoring that while SE lost a single subscription, 8 more people just got houses. If SE outright banned all the grandfathered in housing owners, then more people would be able to participate in with housing

shell FCs

While 4 people are needed to buy a house for an FC, only 1 member is required to retain or relocate an FC house. Changes to this system would have to be applied carefully - otherwise anyone who can kick people (or enough people leaving) can effectively demolish the house and disband the FC. This would be an intolerable side effect.

This is something that needs to end as it's pretty clear from the signature requirement of the FC, and also that there are subscriptions that allow for only one character per server, that SE intended the FC to be formed from four unique subscriptions. I get that there may be people that want access to the gardens and workshops and don't want to be part of an FC that will roll their own FC, or that you have people that are in a failed (or failing FC), and that is the main reason why I have advocated for moving the gardening and workshop content out of the FC (which would also make it generally more accessible as I would assume most FCs do not allow most of their members to garden nor have workshop access). Getting that content detached from housing would be in everyone's best interest as you provide a carrot before implementing the stick (which in this case would be a mechanism to strip housing from FCs that fall below four unique subscriptions or just disband the FC).

We still have grandfathered in houses, shell FCs, and people owning wards.

This is two separate issues, actually, so I'll discuss them separately for you.

NOTE: Catstab's response is being read as "[grandfathered in houses and shell FCs] and [people owning wards] are two separate issues, actually, so I'll discuss them separately for you." Both quotes are included for context.

People owning wards cannot be done without grandfathered in houses and shell FCs. Or put another way, because we have grandfathered in houses and shell FC housing, people are able to own wards.

These two issues are connected whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

[Catstab]

NOTE: Catstab should be read as "[grandfathered in houses and shell FCs] and [people owning wards] are two separate issues, actually.

Hi! Thanks for the note.

You're mistaken, though. "People owning wards" is what I quoted, and the two paragraphs that follow break down each of the two issues. That is two separate issues that you are collapsing into one. Issue 1 is your perception that 8 players are one player, they aren't. Issue 2 is how many houses an account can hold.

edit: went back and numbered them, for your ease-of-use