Parsers add replayability for casual players

[Seera1024]

Hm? Why would we need that?

The kicking system requires that a majority of non-targeted voters need to approve in order to kick someone. That's the only filter we need. We don't need GMs going around getting involved in party kicks, that's way too much nanny state stuff. Let's let people handle their parties on their own.

I think what she's saying is if one person is starting too many kicks too frequently in duty finder content, then maybe they are the problem and need to talk with a GM to figure out what the issue is.

I don't know how many kicks would be the right amount to put, especially if the game can't differentiate between kicks from duty finder or kicks from party finder groups. Party finder groups deserve as many kicks as it takes to find a group that fits the requirements. Duty finder kicks should be limited as you get what you get in duty finder and should only kicking if progress is significantly hampered.

[Katie_Kitty]

I think what she's saying is if one person is starting too many kicks too frequently in duty finder content, then maybe they are the problem and need to talk with a GM to figure out what the issue is.

I don't agree that there's any issue here for the GMs to involve themselves with. :/ Basically, it doesn't matter really if someone frequently attempts vote kicks. The vote will either pass or fail, and either way there's no problem for GMs to resolve unless someone involved becomes particularly nasty as a result of whatever happens with the votekick attempt.

[Awha]

I don't agree that there's any issue here for the GMs to involve themselves with. :/ Basically, it doesn't matter really if someone frequently attempts vote kicks. The vote will either pass or fail, and either way there's no problem for GMs to resolve unless someone involved becomes particularly nasty as a result of whatever happens with the votekick attempt.

Thank you all that should matter is pass fail so speak.

PF groups are used for more than just extreme dungeons.

Thing is nothing in game to my knowledge states you have to play with X people you get randomly. That is just a standard placed by the community.

Correct. Not to mention Katie_Kitty's argument is.. somewhat humorous as Awha in particular stacks parties specifically to make sure any kicks he does go through. But yes, my primary point was and is that if you need to kick dozens of people a day.. I don't think the people you're kicking are the issue. I think you, the kick happy person, may be.

You saying this like this is something I should be ashamed of. I play with friends and playing with friends has certain advantages. Though end of the day they are still their own person free to make their own choices. They are free to click no, I have had it happen once.

Not sure what exactly is the problem. Though for your suggestion to impact me you would have to lower the amount to maybe 2 or 3 kicks a day cause I do not use the DF that many times a day.

Though I would gladly explain why, unless difference of play style is no longer valid what will a GM really be able to eay. Mr. Lalafell please play nice and allow little Timmy to play with you in the sandbox. They could suggest it but I doubt they would be able to force it on me.

If I'm tanking a dungeon and I see a DPS using single target abilities while there's 10 mobs or so I'm going to say something.

1) They're making the run take a heck of a lot longer than it should. They're essentially dead weight.
2) The tank and Healer are both having to expend a LOT more resources staying alive. They might eventually run out of CDs. Seen it happen.

You signed up for the DF according to many here that means you either stay with that person or just leave the dungeon yourself. It is your problem that you find such things to be an issue.

[Lanadra]

I think what she's saying is if one person is starting too many kicks too frequently in duty finder content, then maybe they are the problem and need to talk with a GM to figure out what the issue is.

I don't know how many kicks would be the right amount to put, especially if the game can't differentiate between kicks from duty finder or kicks from party finder groups. Party finder groups deserve as many kicks as it takes to find a group that fits the requirements. Duty finder kicks should be limited as you get what you get in duty finder and should only kicking if progress is significantly hampered.

Correct. Not to mention Katie_Kitty's argument is.. somewhat humorous as Awha in particular stacks parties specifically to make sure any kicks he does go through. But yes, my primary point was and is that if you need to kick dozens of people a day.. I don't think the people you're kicking are the issue. I think you, the kick happy person, may be.

[Roeshel]

I think what she's saying is if one person is starting too many kicks too frequently in duty finder content, then maybe they are the problem and need to talk with a GM to figure out what the issue is.

I don't know how many kicks would be the right amount to put, especially if the game can't differentiate between kicks from duty finder or kicks from party finder groups. Party finder groups deserve as many kicks as it takes to find a group that fits the requirements. Duty finder kicks should be limited as you get what you get in duty finder and should only kicking if progress is significantly hampered.

What "progress". Samurai in expert, who is using only single targeted abilities, is not actually hampering the progress of the dungeon. He can't hamper our progress even if they wanted to simply because the rest of us know how to play. My reason for kicking someone else is "if everyone is as bad as you, can we clear the dungeon" if it is no and you've got an attitude, vote kick.

[Goji1639]

What "progress". Samurai in expert, who is using only single targeted abilities, is not actually hampering the progress of the dungeon. He can't hamper our progress even if they wanted to simply because the rest of us know how to play. My reason for kicking someone else is "if everyone is as bad as you, can we clear the dungeon" if it is no and you've got an attitude, vote kick.

A full group using only single target abilities would still clear an expert dungeon easily. Only way to fail one of those dungeons is for most of the group to not be playing at all.

[Deceptus]

A full group using only single target abilities would still clear an expert dungeon easily. Only way to fail one of those dungeons is for most of the group to not be playing at all.

If I'm tanking a dungeon and I see a DPS using single target abilities while there's 10 mobs or so I'm going to say something.

1) They're making the run take a heck of a lot longer than it should. They're essentially dead weight. It is their $15 a month but they're holding up the other collective $45 from the other people.

2) The tank and Healer are both having to expend a LOT more resources staying alive. They might eventually run out of CDs. Seen it happen.

[Goji1639]

If I'm tanking a dungeon and I see a DPS using single target abilities while there's 10 mobs or so I'm going to say something.

1) They're making the run take a heck of a lot longer than it should. They're essentially dead weight. It is their $15 a month but they're holding up the other collective $45 from the other people.

2) The tank and Healer are both having to expend a LOT more resources staying alive. They might eventually run out of CDs. Seen it happen.

I was just saying that guys rationale for kicking a single target DPS (if the whole group was as bad as you could we clear the dungeon) was flawed. The whole group could be just as bad as a single target SAM and you'd clear any expert dungeon just fine.

My take on this is I only really care if the group is struggling. If the run is going fine then "saying something" isn't going to make things go any faster, it'll just potentially result in an argument that slows things down even more. If someone in the group really needs to vent their frustration on whoever isn't working hard enough for them, I'd prefer they send a tell AFTER the run is finished.

I've wall to walled tons of roulettes and have actually single pulled through the same dungeons with trusts. The difference is like 10-15 minutes, and that's with the entire trust single targeting baby pulls. One person in the group slacking doesn't make enough of a difference to really matter.

[WoW]

I was just saying that guys rationale for kicking a single target DPS (if the whole group was as bad as you could we clear the dungeon) was flawed. The whole group could be just as bad as a single target SAM and you'd clear any expert dungeon just fine.

Single targeting a DPS means either you don't know what you're doing so being quiet will just make you a worse player (which most here would love that because they don't want others to improve so that they don't have to do so themselves), or you're intentionally doing it which is insulting to your other team members that are putting in the effort and you deserve the kick for that! There's no other case besides these two.

So I say speak up about it if you see it!! If they refused the advice, kick them!!

Nope most of it is proving just how toxic it would get an quick if this was put into the MMO.

You're just afraid that people would call you "Forever Grey"

[Roeshel]

A full group using only single target abilities would still clear an expert dungeon easily. Only way to fail one of those dungeons is for most of the group to not be playing at all.

No it won't. Especially if they are not with good gear, the tank will run out of defences (and we take into consideration that the tank will use their cds) and the healer will run out of mana to sustain the tank. Usually, players who know how to deal good single targeted damage also know how to use AoE and vice versa. It is completely safe to assume that someone who uses single targeted abilities against 4-5 mobs is going to be actually dealing incredibly little single targeted damage. Maybe all they do is press 1,2,1,2 and shut their brains down. So they wipe against one wave of mobs. Also dps not aoe-ing a pack of mobs deserves a healer who is never using aoe to heal and often missclicks targets. This bad. And a cure bot cannot sustain the whole party for the last boss.

When you are queueing for expert you should know the basics of your class at least.

PF groups are used for more than just extreme dungeons.

Indeed they are, go make a party and write into the description "I want to get carried and do nothing for the Heroes Gauntlet". See how many will join. When you get into a party via duty finder, you should do your duty.