Parsers add replayability for casual players

[SaberMaxwell]

Let's just get rid of the chat box, since we're thinking of useful tools that could cause harassment.

[VelKallor]

As you said it is impossible to compromise when the issue we are trying to form a compromise largely boils down to potential harassment is an issue. The reality is no solution can be made either would water down the metric to the point where it will not matter and or be used as a metric to cause potential harassment.

There already is. Parsers are outside TOS. They are third party software you have been tacitly allowed to use on the strict and clear understanding you do not use it to harass, belittle, humiliate or abuse others.

You say that like it is a bad thing. Wanting to only play with those you can tolerate.

Then form your own groups and stay out of DF. I saw your comment on you kicking new players, new tanks or new healers. I am sincerely hoping that that was a joke, if not, expect sooner or later to be explaining yourself to a GM.

I mean in DF I sometimes already boot first time players in certain dungeons if they are playing crital roles cause I rather not deal with it.

Kicking a person for being a new tank or new healer is out and out griefing.

I though I understand and generally agree with what you are saying just the core I really do not care what impact my actions have on the game, SE, or others for the most part.

Then its about time you did.

[Awha]

Then form your own groups and stay out of DF. I saw your comment on you kicking new players, new tanks or new healers. I am sincerely hoping that that was a joke, if not, expect sooner or later to be explaining yourself to a GM.

Kicking a person for being a new tank or new healer is out and out griefing.



Then its about time you did.

Why should I care? I am under no obligation to care just like no one is obligated to care about me or my actions.

Also nah it is not a joke, also oddly enough my encounter with a GM was over something I said made a comment in jest. SE GM's for the most part will not take action over something that cannot be proved in game. Silent kicks are a annoying beast for them to handle following their own guidelines.

Though if you want me to care about others and the game please provide me with a reason to do so that is not largely based around your own personal feelings.

Let's just get rid of the chat box, since we're thinking of useful tools that could cause harassment.

To be fair I would not be surprised if SE went down the feast route for communication for pve.

[VelKallor]

Why should I care? I am under no obligation to care just like no one is obligated to care about me or my actions.

If you have to ask that question, you will never understand the answer.

Also nah it is not a joke, also oddly enough my encounter with a GM was over something I said made a comment in jest. SE GM's for the most part will not take action over something that cannot be proved in game. Silent kicks are a annoying beast for them to handle following their own guidelines.

Dont have to prove it. Youve just admitted to it on their official forums.

[ZedxKayn]

Define 'decent level' without referring to a parser.

You can't have it both ways. Either a parser is only used for weeding out end-game players, or it is used for weeding out players you'll 'tolerate' in non-end-game roulette.

I don't see how that's an answer. Tanking is very easy and straightforward so much that's it's almost "you either do it right, or you don't", where's the issue in expecting a nearly lv80 tank to be able to grab aggro, keep their 1-2 combo going, mitigate and run far enough to grab more than 1 pack of mobs?

[Raelsar]

Well then, seeing as this is still going... time to summarize my thoughts on the subject.

#1 - Parsers are not an automatic positive
There is potential for parsers to be used constructively, yes... but there is also a great deal of potential for them to be misused and abused. Both need to be considered, period.

#2 - Not everyone wants them
A similar point to the first, but there are plenty who believe that the potential for harm parsers have greatly outweighs the potential benefits they bring... doubly so when it often appears that some posters are actively looking for some kind of excuse that would allow them to berate and harass under-performing players. As such, there are players (like myself) who don't want to see them added to the game because it looks like players would not use them correctly; and this thread is actually going a LONG way to support that particular argument.

#3 - They cause strife within the community
You want proof? This thread is AMPLE by itself. If anything, the subject could be described as "explosive"... and I would say the FFXIV developers are inclined to keep the game's reputation for a good community intact. Adding an official parser would be a festering wound to that reputation, so there's no way they'll be implementing it if the wider community responds to their addition in a way that's remotely similar to how this thread has progressed.

So all in all... yeah, there isn't anywhere near enough good reasons to add parsers.
However, there appears to be ample reason to avoid adding them just by looking how posters are acting in this thread alone.

[ZedxKayn]

Well then, seeing as this is still going... time to summarize my thoughts on the subject.

#1 - Parsers are not an automatic positive
There is potential for parsers to be used constructively, yes... but there is also a great deal of potential for them to be misused and abused. Both need to be considered, period.

#2 - Not everyone wants them
A similar point to the first, but there are plenty who believe that the potential for harm parsers have greatly outweighs the potential benefits they bring... doubly so when it often appears that some posters are actively looking for some kind of excuse that would allow them to berate and harass under-performing players. As such, there are players (like myself) who don't want to see them added to the game because it looks like players would not use them correctly; and this thread is actually going a LONG way to support that particular argument.

#3 - They cause strife within the community
You want proof? This thread is AMPLE by itself. If anything, the subject could be described as "explosive"... and I would say the FFXIV developers are inclined to keep the game's reputation for a good community intact. Adding an official parser would be a festering wound to that reputation, so there's no way they'll be implementing it if the wider community responds to their addition in a way that's remotely similar to how this thread has progressed.

So all in all... yeah, there isn't anywhere near enough good reasons to add parsers.
However, there appears to be ample reason to avoid adding them just by looking how posters are acting in this thread alone.

You know those points you listed could be flipped around right?
#1 Parsers are not an automatic negative, 2# Not everyone is against them and/or a significant portion wants them, and 3# them causing divide is a thing whether or not they are in the game. Though I would argue it's not the tool itself that causes the divide but how people approach multiplayer content.

[Awha]

If you have to ask that question, you will never understand the answer.



Dont have to prove it. Youve just admitted to it on their official forums.

I have admitted to many things on the forum as have many others. If SE took that approach many people on the forums would have ingame strikes against their account and that does not seem very logical.

I use mods, ACT, have removed people from my group for not being a lalafell or a Roe. Did it again let us see what happens. Though do not get me wrong if I do face consequences for my actions I will not complain. Since I understand my actions do have consequences but yeah I am willing to gamble my account.

So I should care about the game and others because I will not understand the answer. Seems weird answer but you are right I do not understand.

[Shurrikhan]

Define 'decent level' without referring to a parser.

You can't have it both ways. Either a parser is only used for weeding out end-game players, or it is used for weeding out players you'll 'tolerate' in non-end-game roulette.

Sequencing defensives. Using their oGCD attacks. Comboing correctly. Not spinning mobs constantly/unnecessarily. Pulling according to what the group is capable of.

...How is a parser even remotely relevant to the complaints typically held about "level 77 tanks"?

Though I would argue it's not the tool itself that causes the divide but how people approach multiplayer content.

But, but... we can't shoot (unwritten) messages, only the messenger.

[Lanadra]

Unless I am missing something here with my admittedly biased view, there has always been compromise on the part of the pro-parsers however, no budging on the anti-parsers, which makes coming to a compromise impossible.

Have you considered that the unwillingness from anti-parsers to compromise, at least from how you view it.. might be because anti-parsers.. don't need to?

The development team, Yoshi P specifically, agrees with the view that anti-parsers hold: Don't want them. You're not getting them in any officially sanctioned manner.

It's hard to compromise from a position where you stand only to lose. Anti-parsers have what they want, full stop. There's no reason to take steps in a direction that they quite literally do not want. Especially not when parsers are already widely used and turned a blind eye to by the FFXIV dev team for the only scene that actually needs them.. raiding.