Parsers add replayability for casual players

[Wavaryen]

As I said, queue systems that auto makes groups. I don't think anyone has a right to tell others how they should play. Even if they are playing wrong. The group can vote kick and that is fine, but telling someone what they can and can't do in a queue setting? The convenience of said tools needs to have risks, and players who play how they want is that risk.

Now, if I was making a group and set the rules, or have a ls that people join that you set a standard. By all means judge, and call people out have at it.


Like I said before, I think these tools take something away from the rpg element. The players know a little too much about the number side and it reflects on the community. When you say you want people to just know class and play to your standards. What you are really saying is, I want the convenience of a queue system, with the perks of not having to make social connections and build my own groups.


That is why we keep going in a circle on this matter. Both are saying, this is a mmorpg and you group with other players. Can say the same thing for the case on this issue. The only thing left to say is, console players sorry you don't get all the perks of pc players. I mean we can change our texture models and do so other things that console people can't. So it is what it is. Not that I would do it. But it is a google search away.

[ZedxKayn]

I don't think anyone has a right to tell others how they should play. Even if they are playing wrong.

Hard disagree, as their party member, their performance directly impacts my enjoyment of the game, I'm not going to not say anything when I die in a pull because the WHM wouldn't stop using Cure I instead of more potent tools, or if some guy completely ignoring mechanics will force me to drain my MP to babysit him at the risk of receiving abuse if I choose to let him eat dirt.

[Wavaryen]

Hard disagree, as their party member, their performance directly impacts my enjoyment of the game, I'm not going to not say anything when I die in a pull because the WHM wouldn't stop using Cure I instead of more potent tools, or if some guy completely ignoring mechanics will force me to drain my MP to babysit him at the risk of receiving abuse if I choose to let him eat dirt.

In a queue system you don't really have that right. Now if you are in a ls or made the group yourself. You can set whatever standards you want. Also you can have the group vote kick someone, but telling them what they can and can't do? Nah no place for that in a queue base system that builds your groups for you. These convenience tools need some sort of risk, or it would crush the social element more so than it already has.

[Shurrikhan]

As I said, queue systems that auto makes groups. I don't think anyone has a right to tell others how they should play. Even if they are playing wrong. The group can vote kick and that is fine, but telling someone what they can and can't do in a queue setting?

Wait, wait wait...

Let's consider what's actually involved in that "telling someone what they can and can't do". This is the stuff of "Now that you've learned Flare, it's really not worth casting Fire 2," "Please AoE when there are 3+ targets," and "The red AoE indicators indicate AoEs. AoEs are not good to stand in. As your healer, who has limited time and competing interests, I would greatly appreciate it if you not accumulate avoidable damage like some valued collectable". It is not some fascistic control over one's likes and dislikes.

Even if commenting on others' play or holding them to some minimal standard were borderline overbearing, though, communication is something one can ignore. Being removed from a party after 20+ minutes in queue because you've apparently no idea that you have a skill called Doom Spike is not a state one can will into having no impact upon your play or actions by ignoring it. Be emotionally unflappable about the kick all you like, but you still have to repeat the rather long queue. That hardly seems a favor over asking from the poor gal or guy some minimum quality of play or, ultimately, helping them learn their job, and it feels real awkward that you're treating it as such.

[Wavaryen]

Wait, wait wait...

Let's consider what's actually involved in that "telling somehow what they can and can't do". This is the stuff of "Now that you've learned Flare, it's really not worth casting Fire 2," "Please AoE when there are 3+ targets," and "The red AoE indicators indicate AoEs. AoEs are not good to stand in. As your healer, who has limited time and competing interests, I would greatly appreciate it if you not accumulate avoidable damage like some valued collectable". It is not some fascistic control over one's likes and dislikes.

Even if commenting on others' play or holding them to some minimal standard were borderline overbearing, though, communication is something one can ignore. Being removed from a party after 20+ minutes in queue because you've apparently no idea that you have a skill called Doom Spike is not a state one can will into having no impact upon your play or actions by ignoring it. Being emotionally unflappable about the kick all you like, but you still have to repeat the rather long queue. That hardly seems a favor over asking from the poor guy or gal some minimum quality of play or, ultimately, helping them learn their job, and it feels real awkward that you're treating it as such.

That is part of the risk. If players want to vote kick you that is fine. What is being said by the developers and how the rules are enforced. It is consider harassing for telling others how to play in that manner. These players who get kicked should understand why they are and not be upset with it but we all know how players are.


Myself like i said I think that risk balances out these overpowering queue systems.

[Shurrikhan]

That is part of the risk. If players want to vote kick you that is fine. What is being said by the developers and how the rules are enforced. It is consider harassing for telling others how to play in that manner. These players who get kicked should understand why they are and not be upset with it but we all know how players are.


Myself like i said I think that risk balances out these overpowering queue systems.

So I should just, what, be glad that people aren't taking any time out of their day to interact with me when there's a point in conflict (instead opting to just kick me immediately because otherwise there may come a point of contention with the rules)?

That... doesn't strike you as the far more toxic trend of events?

_________________________

...And in what possible way does risk of your queue time being wasted, let alone due to an odd adherence to the letter of the rules over the spirit thereof, "balance out" queues? Rather, how is it necessary to penalize queues for whatever relative advantages they have?

If you've some principled disgust for matchmaking, let's not take that out on players who just want to be able to do group content through the means the game makes natural, ideally without being kicked just because people would rather not even try to talk them through points of otherwise transient conflict.

[Wavaryen]

you don't got to be glad. You just got to understand that is the price of convenience with said tools.

Be it right or wrong is not really up for debate, as both sides can make a case for the same thing. The only thing matters is what rules get enforced by the gms. Way I see it anyway.

[JRat]

... These players who get kicked should understand why they are and not be upset with it but we all know how players are.


....

I kinda get where you are coming from. We shouldn't be dictating anothers gameplay.
But, how are they supposed to understand anything if you are not allowed to talk to them and suggest improvements?

[Wavaryen]

I kinda get where you are coming from. We shouldn't be dictating anothers gameplay.
But, how are they supposed to understand anything if you are not allowed to talk to them and suggest improvements?

I have a golden rule about that. If someone whispers after the run asking if I want some advice or something. (or my wife.) That means to myself they care enough to help and improve. However, telling me during the run in front of everyone is just for yourself to get the dungeon done. So I will ignore it.


Now, that is just for my class. I play a Sam so it is not like it is that hard. And if I mess up, I will say why like I'm having trouble with a part. I'm strange when it comes to this sorta thing, but I'm trying to look at it from both sides. Some people just don't care to get better or want others advice. They play how they want.