Parsers add replayability for casual players

[SturmChurro]

Asking for a SCH to summon their fairy or a DRG to use their DoT and to not have a mental breakdown when asked to try to do something is not being hardcore. Christ. That's what is bothering the oh so toxic pro-parser elitists. No one is gonna care as long as a modicum of mindfulness is put in multiplayer content.

It's so weird to me. That expecting basic level competency is somehow frowned upon. These players are literally dragging down parties, completely wasting other people's time, but they need to be coddled. It's rude to everyone else putting in a slight effort to play their jobs rightly. This isn't like ESO, where you choose your favorite four or five skills from hundreds. There are set combos, rotations, for specific purpose. Choosing not to use them is griefing, frankly.

[NanaWiloh]

So if you support parsing and want to point out to people that they could improve. Well hiding your own LOGS or posting on a character that has not see a run in ages. Is going to raise questions about your motives and honesty in this matter. Talking about using data to back your claims then hiding your own data is just being two faced. To those who support parsing and dont hide their data. Thank you for being open I give you credit and a nod of respect.

[Artemiz]

It's so weird to me. That expecting basic level competency is somehow frowned upon. These players are literally dragging down parties, completely wasting other people's time, but they need to be coddled. It's rude to everyone else putting in a slight effort to play their jobs rightly. This isn't like ESO, where you choose your favorite four or five skills from hundreds. There are set combos, rotations, for specific purpose. Choosing not to use them is griefing, frankly.

What's weird to me is people strawmanning others by suggesting if you're against parsers its because you are happy to have a party full of semi trained chimps.

I've lost count of the amount of endgame groups I've been in over the years that have 3rd party communication. They all used parsers and if they had been allowed to announce results in game then griefing and shaming would have quickly followed. Many groups would post event parse results in 3rd party aps as a procedure after each event. This can cause arguments as it is but good leaders can usually manage these situations, those brakes won't be applied in random parties though.

SE are reasonably happy with the current situation, if you parse and keep your mouth shut they don't care. Make one mention of it though and they have you on ToS. If they let the cat out of the bag and allow parsers they will spend far too much time having to mediate silly arguments about pointless crap.

As I said before this argument is very old, its raged since before FFXIV was but a twinkle in Yoshi P's eye, back in FFXI, both parsers and windower were discussed and argued about to death. The devs didn't budge an inch, and there is nothing to suggest they will start now.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

So if you support parsing and want to point out to people that they could improve. Well hiding your own LOGS or posting on a character that has not see a run in ages. Is going to raise questions about your motives and honesty in this matter. Talking about using data to back your claims then hiding your own data is just being two faced. To those who support parsing and dont hide their data. Thank you for being open I give you credit and a nod of respect.

Hiding logs in general is frowned upon. I may not be proud of mine - especially during last tier - but keeping them concealed lowkey makes me looks sus.

[linayar]

Except it isn't emboldening players as that applies they're condoning the behavior.

You don't have to condone someone's behavior to embolden them to do it. If they allow parser in the game, that will open up discussion based on parser in game.

They're only able to clear on the backs of better players willing to put forth more effort. This is the intrinsic problem people have, specially at the higher end difficulty level. Many of us on the pro-parser side aren't asking for perfection but an effort and willingness to improve. Of course SE has little incentive to promote any system that might keeps players away no matter how unfit they are for that content since it potentially impacts their bottom line.

SE also has little incentive to micromanage player interaction. If you don't like how someone else plays the game, then you don't have to play with them. Parser won't do anything for people who don't care to improve.

I guess I can report my static members if I cause a wipe and they point it out because it's pointing out an inconvenient truth, since it's harassment now.

Or maybe I can hold myself accountable and take no offense which is honestly bare minimum in a cooperative setting regardless of the difficulty of the content.

It's not an either-or scenario. You can hold yourself accountable and try to improve based on what they say and still take offense and report them for how they say it. The moderator will then (hopefully) carefully examine any evidence they have and decide whether it is harassment. If it is, then your static members can also hold themselves accountable and be held accountable by SE for what they say and maybe they'll learn to say it better next time.

[NanaWiloh]

Hiding logs in general is frowned upon. I may not be proud of mine - especially during last tier - but keeping them concealed lowkey makes me looks sus.

My logs are hidden for two reasons 1. I dont need to be told I can do better I am already aware of that. I work at Improving to reach my goals and expections not that of others though. 2. Had a player here on the forum use my logs against me once. While they hid behind an alt account, cause they got tired of people critizing them for their logs. Which is why I say if ya support parsing keep your logs public otherwise you are just two faced. I myself have no intention of using data against someone, I do normal content and its not worth parsing other players in there as the skill level varies widely. If Savage/ult content is a River flowing in one direction, Roulette and normal content would be the Ocean.

[SturmChurro]

What's weird to me is people strawmanning others by suggesting if you're against parsers its because you are happy to have a party full of semi trained chimps.

I've lost count of the amount of endgame groups I've been in over the years that have 3rd party communication. They all used parsers and if they had been allowed to announce results in game then griefing and shaming would have quickly followed. Many groups would post event parse results in 3rd party aps as a procedure after each event. This can cause arguments as it is but good leaders can usually manage these situations, those brakes won't be applied in random parties though.

SE are reasonably happy with the current situation, if you parse and keep your mouth shut they don't care. Make one mention of it though and they have you on ToS. If they let the cat out of the bag and allow parsers they will spend far too much time having to mediate silly arguments about pointless [...].

As I said before this argument is very old, its raged since before FFXIV was but a twinkle in Yoshi P's eye, back in FFXI, both parsers and windower were discussed and argued about to death. The devs didn't budge an inch, and there is nothing to suggest they will start now.

I'm going to be real with you here, I didn't read anything prior. I was simply giving my opinion on the community's general stance on the players who choose to not use skills.

What exactly does having an in-game parser have to do with this? Like, I get players don't want to see their own numbers - especially if they aren't very good, but other people can already see their numbers now. I assume the policy wouldn't change as it is currently.

They are already spending far too much time mediating silly arguments and pointless reports, in my opinion. It's pretty well known that the FFXIV community will report each other for anything and everything. I doubt an official parser - if added - would change much here in this regard, the smart players would continue to keep their mouths shut out of fear of a strike, and potential ban.

[linayar]

other people can already see their numbers now.

Then I guess we don't need an in-game parser.

It's pretty well known that the FFXIV community will report each other for anything and everything.

What may be "pretty well known" does not always match individual experiences.

[SturmChurro]

Then I guess we don't need an in-game parser.

What may be "pretty well known" does not always match individual experiences.

No, there's an argument for their inclusion. Not mine, but there are valid arguments all throughout the thread. I just take issue with the whole "harassment" thing, nothing would change in this aspect.

I can assure you, people of this community are reporting for pretty much everything. One could make the argument whether GMs actually act on most of these, but it doesn't change that fact, or the amount of GM time wasted having to go through them.

[Kusanagi7]

I have a question for the pro parser folk where do you want the parsers in certain content like extremes, ultimates etc or all content?