Parsers add replayability for casual players

[Awha]

So, because it's against the ToS, you are willing to subject a massive amount of players to abuse for a month (hah!) in order to get a parser ?

And then you qualify telling people about their 'low damage' as "It simply isn't [harassment]" ... Perhaps, in your eyes. Not in mine. Go ahead and "gently" abuse, and see how long the ToS permanent ban takes to come crashing down on you.

Should a factual statement be viewed as harassment?

[Goji1639]

Should a factual statement be viewed as harassment?

Depends. What if I were to approach some woman in the mall and gently inform her that she's ugly? Factual or not it was completely unnecessary and probably a little embarrassing for her.

[Mikey_R]

Depends. What if I were to approach some woman in the mall and gently inform her that she's ugly? Factual or not it was completely unnecessary and probably a little embarrassing for her.

Technically, your example is a statement of opinion, not a statement of fact, a fact being something that is proven to be true. While YOU might find that person ugly, someone else might find them attractive.

Now, I have not kept up with every single post here, but however, to provide examples of where someone is factually underperforming, you can look at EX, Savage and Ultimate fights.

Each one of those fights are designed with a certain DPS requirement in mind for each job. If you do not meet that DPS requirement, you are underperforming in your role. Now SE might not publish the exact DPS requirements they use to tune fights, you can still get a good idea. That 1 DPS who is 10K below the others? they are not doing the expected damage, therefore, they are underperforming. Stating this will be a statement of fact. Of course, once things get closer together DPS wise between the players, the line between factually bad and performing adequately start to blur and unless some actual data from SE themselves is released, this line will always be there.

You can also make a case for dungeons, at least, the ShB dungeons and this metric comes from trusts. Trusts vary the damage they do so that dungeon runs take about 25-35 mins. You can say, if a dungeon takes longer than the trusts to complete, someone has not been doing enough damage, bear in mind, with an average group of players, Expert dungeons can be completed in about 15-20 mins, so getting over 30-35 mins means someone is doing really really bad.

[Goji1639]

Technically, your example is a statement of opinion, not a statement of fact, a fact being something that is proven to be true. While YOU might find that person ugly, someone else might find them attractive.

No reason to get bogged down in semantics. I could point out that someone's fat, poor, short, bald, etc. in front of other people and watch as they become uncomfortable and humiliated, but it's a petty thing to do.

Ugly is not a factual statement. Though I have called people fat in public, like damn they are fat sometimes I think I am saying something in my head but I am actually saying it out loud.

Sure they may feel embarrassed and it may be unnecessary but if the statement is true and can be factually backed up then honestly the person in my eyes should not view it as harassment. They may dislike me as a person and take offense to the statement, but to categorize it as harassment seems weird cause telling people the truth should never been seen as harassment aren’t we all taught that being honest is the best policy. Yet when it comes to certain things are told to lie to spare the feelings of others. Seems weird to me.

Being honest is certainly not always the best policy; that's just something adults say to children because they don't feel like explaining the nuances of social interaction to them.

When determining whether or not being honest is a good or bad idea you need to read the situation and apply a certain level of common sense to it. In your case honesty seems to mainly involve criticism of people. In many situations, however, criticism isn't necessary or useful; it just creates conflict. It's your job to recognize those situations, apply logic, and realize that it would be best for everyone if you kept your criticisms to yourself.

[Awha]

No reason to get bogged down in semantics. I could point out that someone's fat, poor, short, bald, etc. in front of other people and watch as they become uncomfortable and humiliated, but it's a petty thing to do.


Being honest is certainly not always the best policy; that's just something adults say to children because they don't feel like explaining the nuances of social interaction to them.

When determining whether or not being honest is a good or bad idea you need to read the situation and apply a certain level of common sense to it. In your case honesty seems to mainly involve criticism of people. In many situations, however, criticism isn't necessary or useful; it just creates conflict. It's your job to recognize those situations, apply logic, and realize that it would be best for everyone if you kept your criticisms to yourself.

I am sorry I woefully disagree. I do think people should be 100% honest with everyone they encounter, people should know where they stand with everyone so they can better protect and associate with individuals that align with their personality. This is how is wish to be treated, and it is how I treat others.

If conflict stems from factual remakes then the person who resorts to conflict just shows their own insecurities and general weak will. Nothing ever needs to result in conflict, unless by conflict you mean a civil discourse then that is fine and I welcome on any front. I think the world would be a better place if people we able to be honest all around. I know I personally find it refreshing when someone is 100% honest with me, and at the work place with my team they have also told me as such outside of one person that they appreciate that they know for a fact where I always stand with them.

I also find it easier to work with someone I do not like or does not like me if we are upfront regarding our own personal view of one another. After we let that baggage out we are free to respect one another for the quantifiable qualities like work ethic or quality of work. I do not like everyone on my team as people, but I respect them as teammates and workers because I respect their work.

I view the world vastly different from most and I get this, but this is how I live I respectfully disagree that honest is not the best policy.

[Goji1639]

I view the world vastly different from most and I get this, but this is how I live I respectfully disagree that honest is not the best policy.

Fair enough, I'm not really here to try to change you. If you choose to completely ignore all the nuance involved in social interaction I feel like your life is going to be a complicated one, though. Best of luck.

[Awha]

Fair enough, I'm not really here to try to change you. If you choose to completely ignore all the nuance involved in social interaction I feel like your life is going to be a complicated one, though. Best of luck.

To be honest it is the opposite it is rather simple. This is why I prefer my black and white approach. I mean maybe those interacting with me may find it complicated but for me honestly it is rather simple. Though I am also not out to make friends or be friendly with people either.

[Awha]

Depends. What if I were to approach some woman in the mall and gently inform her that she's ugly? Factual or not it was completely unnecessary and probably a little embarrassing for her.

Ugly is not a factual statement. Though I have called people fat in public, like damn they are fat sometimes I think I am saying something in my head but I am actually saying it out loud.

Sure they may feel embarrassed and it may be unnecessary but if the statement is true and can be factually backed up then honestly the person in my eyes should not view it as harassment. They may dislike me as a person and take offense to the statement, but to categorize it as harassment seems weird cause telling people the truth should never been seen as harassment aren’t we all taught that being honest is the best policy. Yet when it comes to certain things are told to lie to spare the feelings of others. Seems weird to me.

Depending on what was said they may want to keep it private. We don't know what the rude comment was about and maybe it was about something very personal.



My apologies I did not mean to imply that you in any way agree with being rude. It was more of a general statement directed at the "fAcTs CaN'T bE rUdE" people.



This ^ also how you state a fact can hugely impact how people are going to react to your statement. There is a big difference between "you suck at the game" and "you need to improve how you play".

How someone stats a fact is moot, all that should matter is if the statement is factually correct. If someone is fat they are fat, if someone is doing less damage then a tank or healer as a dps and you have numbers to prove it they are objectively doing less damage. The reason why is kinda moot, sure it could be gear related or skill related but those factors does not change the factual statement regarding them doing less damage.

I am sorry I will always be of the mindsets facts cannot be viewed as harassment in themselves. You may dislike the person for stating the fact etc . . . But to say that it is harassment to call someone out for what they are seems extremely weird to me.

Do not get me wrong facts can be rude. Though being rude in itself is not harassment either.

[WoW]

Depends. What if I were to approach some woman in the mall and gently inform her that she's ugly? Factual or not it was completely unnecessary and probably a little embarrassing for her.

Well, if she joined a beauty contest, it's fair game to tell her she's ugly.

You don't want your DPS to be criticized, play a game that doesn't require it.

[Shurrikhan]

Well, if she joined a beauty contest, it's fair game to tell her she's ugly.

I'm not sure it is, at least if conveyed as such. But, admittedly, none of these analogies are going to be a perfect fit.

My hope, though, would be that use of parsers (especially if properly contextualized, which an officially supported parser could more afford to be) would help speed us towards such notes as "You'd more attractive if you let your shoulders back."

Barring any further step, noting someone's damage as simply "low" may be useful, but more often it's just going to be redundant and/or snide. You may as well have said "Dead grass grey-brown; Blue Man Group blue."

I mean, what is one supposed to do with that just "your damage is low"? As someone in position to help, the parser should merely be a way to direct your attention to something if your eyes didn't otherwise already catch it. We can, without loss, save the comments for when we have something useful to say, such as after we -- made to notice the disparity despite our own tiredness or whatnot -- see that the BLM keeps cancelling their casts or forgetting to refresh Enochian in time, that the Monk is consistently missing their Leaden Fist positional or isn't yet using their shiny new Raptor-form AoE... whatever it may be.

First, people in DF are strangers who have been randomly positioned together in a specific setting. It's not so different than running into random people at a store; where the shared interest and responsibility is to cordially conduct your business in each other's presence.

Yet the shoppers do not share conditions of success unless their goals were each, in fact, not to shop, but merely to be infused with the communal spirit of having passed by other humans (ideally, cordially). I would think, at least prior to the pandemic and its lockdowns, that alternative would seem rather ridiculous.

A group of DF dungeon-runners each benefit from one another's performance, and have signed up specifically for that vein of activity. The setting in which shoppers operate creates, at most, competitive interactions for them. While the models analogy may seem to overexaggerate the requirements (though, one should remember than most models are not professionals, unless one conflatingly uses the term to strictly mean "professional models" and not those who act as a model for a given task or work), it is at least far more appropriate than strangers happening to cross one another just because their interests share adjacent destinations (though such may appropriately describe XIV as a whole).